V80s Are In Canada

[phrunt]

Well, I guess the V80 breaches the same patent, as likely do the XP, Rutus and Garrett detectors.

If you read the patent, it's there to stop any competitors doing a multi frequency unit, innovative of Minelab as it's a 2005 patent.  So, it sounds like Nokta will likely be guilty, along with the other competitors.  It's a very anti-competitive patent from my very limited understanding of it.  If Nokta didn't sell into America they would be fine too and not be in this situation, so Quest is wary of doing so, and rightly so.  I wouldn't sell my detectors into America either for the same reason If I was making them, not worth the risk and hassle when the world is a big place to sell into without the US market.

Nokta has done a brilliant job of making their own version of multi frequency without using Minelab's technology so they couldn't go after them for some recent patent of their multi frequency technology like Multi-IQ so they go after them for an old patent.

DETAILED DESCRIPTION OF THE INVENTION

 

FIG. 1 shows a switched voltage signal generated by switching electronics 2 is applied to a magnetic transmitter 1, shown here as a transmit coil. Signals from a magnetic receiver 3 are amplified by a preamplifier 4 and applied to applied to approximate sine wave weighted synchronous demodulators 5. The output of these demodulators is fed to further signal processors 6 which provide a useful output signal, such as an audio alert or visual display. Both the transmitter and synchronous demodulators are controlled by a controller 7 which includes a clock to control timing. An operator selects the frequency profile of the approximate sine-wave weighted synchronously demodulation by operating switches 8, which may also alter the switched voltage signal appropriately too.

FIG. 2 shows a switched voltage signal of fundamental period T, whose waveform repeats, and this is relatively rich in frequencies 1/T, 4/T and 16/T. This waveform and the corresponding receive sine-wave demodulation may very easily be changed using digital signal processing technology, which may be controlled by an operator using for example push-buttons. It would be useful to set 1/T at say 2 kHz if an operator is seeking USA coins, which are relatively conductive, or say 1 kHz if Bronze-age or copper-age daggers which are even more conductive are being sought for example. However, 1/T would be better set to say 16 kHz if small gold nuggets are the targets which exhibit relatively short time constants.

Although the invention has been herein shown and described in what is conceived to be the most practical and preferred embodiment, it is recognised that departures can be made within the scope of the invention, which is not to be limited to the details described herein but is to be accorded the full scope of the appended claims so as to embrace any and all equivalent devices and apparatus.

 

Patent Summary

 

1. A metal detector used for detecting a metallic target in a soil including:

a. transmit electronics having a plurality of switches to generate a switched voltage signal, the waveform of the switched voltage signal being one of predetermined repeating multi-period rectangular waveforms;

b. a transmit coil connected to the transmit electronics to receive the switched voltage signal and to generate a transmitted magnetic field for transmission;

c. a receive coil to receive a received magnetic field and to provide a received signal induced by the received magnetic field; and

d. receive electronics connected to the receive coil to process the received signal, the processing including a synchronous demodulation of the received signal using one of predetermined substantially sine-wave weighted synchronous demodulation profiles associated with a corresponding predetermined repeating multi-period rectangular waveform; the profiles being selectable by an operator; and a result of the synchronous demodulation is further processed to provide an indicator output signal in real time, the indicator output signal including a signal indicative of the presence of a metallic target in the soil.

2. A metal detector according to claim 1, wherein:

a Fourier transform of the switched voltage signal contains frequency components of relatively high magnitude at frequencies corresponding to periods within the predetermined repeating multi-period rectangular waveform and the period of the predetermined repeating multi-period rectangular waveform, as compared to other frequency components across a frequency spectrum of the Fourier transform.

3. A metal detector according to claim 2, wherein:

the synchronous demodulation of the received signal is such that received signal is synchronously demodulated at frequencies corresponding to periods within the predetermined repeating multi-period rectangular waveform and the period of the predetermined repeating multi-period rectangular waveform.

4. A metal detector according to claim 1, the metal detector further comprising:

a controller, the controller being accessible to the operator, to control the period of the predetermined repeating multiple-period rectangular 

 

Full Patent info here: 

US7579839B2 - Metal detector - Google Patents

 

I really don't know who to side with on this stuff, Patents are there to protect their R&D and income stream from the invention, Minelab are very good at doing patents and it's the main reason I think they've had little competition.  So, their patent is working, its stopping competition, competitors have to tread very carefully.  As customers these patents are bad in a way as they stop competitors and competition is great for consumers.  So, I can't take sides on this stuff.  It's a shame, but rules are rules, laws are laws.

[DSMITH]

11 hours ago, Jeff McClendon said:

Where are the lawsuits against Garrett and XP for infringement of the '839 patent owned by Minelab? Both of those companies have SMF detectors that are sold in the USA and American Detector distributes those detectors and their parts.

Minelab/Codan has made millions of dollars on the sale of their Equinox 600/800 detectors and rightfully so since they are outstanding metal detectors.

However, the Legend with version 1.09 or 1.11 software is simply better than the Equinox 600/800 from my experience with all three at least where I hunt and how I use them and for the simple reason that the Legend has proven to actually be waterproof down to 16 feet.

Reading that lawsuit makes me want to sell all of my Minelab gear.

I go to Canada a lot. I will get a Quest V80 eventually just to symbolically raise a middle finger at Minelab.

Agree with you, I will end up getting one eventually, as Ridge Runner stated where there is a will there is a way

[midalake]

On 8/14/2023 at 8:44 PM, DSMITH said:

Agree with you, I will end up getting one eventually, as Ridge Runner stated where there is a will there is a way

I am in Canada next week. Find a dealer between the border of Michigan and Trenton Ont. and I will pick you one up! 

[Geotech]

'839 is narrowly defined to cover sine-weighted demod clocks. You can avoid the patent by using square-wave demod clocks, which is likely what Garrett & XP did.

I live 20 miles from Canada, unfortunately no detector dealers in Grand Forks. I had planned a drive up to Jasper in a couple of weeks but the Kelowna wildfire has caused travel restrictions.

Quote

I really don't know who to side with on this stuff, Patents are there to protect their R&D and income stream from the invention...

The use of sine-weighted demodulation dates back at least 100 years in tube radios, and at least the 1980s in software radio architectures. '839 is one of those patents that should never have been issued, as it's a commonly-known technique simply applied to a metal detector, which is otherwise just like any other quadrature demodulation application (like your cell phone). There was no actual invention here.

[Ridge Runner]

Midalake  

 To not cause a dealer in Canada trouble I myself wouldn’t say even the location I made a buy . 
 What I see the Q80 has to have offer I would have a hard time to step down to something less. My problem right now is I don’t know not one person in Canada. 
 I’ve said will and way but you have to know I have no pride to complete whatever it takes to accomplish the end results. My problem right now I’m not sure what that is.haha  

 I wish the best to the one that can get their hands on the Q80.

 Chuck 

[Geotech]

Keep in mind that if you buy a Q80 in Canada and then take it into the US you will be personally infringing the ML patent and legally exposed. I can't imagine that ML would go after an individual but you never know. Loose lips enable lawyers to buy expensive ships.

[midalake]

15 hours ago, Geotech said:

Keep in mind that if you buy a Q80 in Canada and then take it into the US you will be personally infringing the ML patent and legally exposed. I can't imagine that ML would go after an individual but you never know. Loose lips enable lawyers to buy expensive ships.

Hogwash. Unless there is a document you sign off on or a user warning stamped all over that detector. 

[Geotech]

1 hour ago, midalake said:

Hogwash. Unless there is a document you sign off on or a user warning stamped all over that detector. 

Sorry, ignorance of the law isn't much of a defense. Plus, it's documented that everyone here knows of the patent issue. I don't think ML would ever come after an individual who brings a Q80 into the US, but if they did, the first thing they would do is issue a letter of infringement and demand surrender of the unit. That would probably be the end of it, unless the infringer would rather dance with ML than kiss $700 goodbye.

P.S. -- Discussion of intentional infringement, such as encouraging someone to go to Canada and buy a Q80 to bring back, can be considered "inducement to infringe," also illegal. All I'm sayin' is, "Be careful what you say in public."

[Ridge Runner]

Geotech  

 On what you said that is the reason why I said I wouldn’t let anyone where it came from so not to do harm to the dealer . Another thing I myself may let some know on here my opinion of it bye PM but not talk about it openly.

 You could be right about someone taking it away from whoever but I can assure you that after they won’t know if they got it by looking at it .

 I don’t believe you will be able to return it if you have trouble .That could be a real problem are a quick loss to someone.

 Chuck