☠ Cipher Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 For 35 years now Minelab have been the innovators. They’ve given us BBS, FBS, and Multi-IQ not to mention their contributions to the PI realm. Multi-IQ platforms in particular have taken the industry by storm. Then enter Nokta with their version of simultaneous multifrequency wrapped up in a package very similar to the Equinox 800. It seems that no matter what Minelab does Nokta has a ready answer to it, flooding the market with inexpensive options. Minelab is then forced to counter react. I for one feel torn and I wonder if anyone else can identify. I want to support innovation. I don’t want to reward imitators. At the same time Nokta offers deals that are hard for anyone to dismiss. $279 for a waterproof Simultaneous Multifrequency Score. How do you compete with that? And what effect does it have on the hobby to have the market flooded with low cost high performance detectors? Will it ruin the hobby in the long run? Will it run Minelab and their innovations out of business one day? Will Nokta be able to innovate rather than reinvent if that happens? I’ve been avoiding Nokta’s platforms opting to support Minelab instead. Rather than a Legend, I bought a Manticore. Rather than a Simplex Ultra I bought an Xterra Pro. I’m afraid that if some of us don’t continue to support Minelab’s innovations they may not be around in the future. On one hand I’m very tempted by the deals Nokta puts out, like anyone else. On the other hand, underselling technology has negative effects on not just Minelab, but other Western companies that may not be able to sell at or near a loss to keep up. I worry about Nokta’s tactics over the long term and what they will mean in the future. You can tell me if I’m overthinking it, or if you see it differently. Some will say Minelab was overselling their technology and maybe that’s true. But how low is too low before it becomes predatory? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCR Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 Competition in a free market is almost always a good thing for consumers and often for the competitors also. I don't see Nokta as a copy cat. They have been innovators in their own right. The wheel doesn't have to be re-invented. One would not consider GM a copy cat of Ford. As you note, Minelab has been a very innovative company and they have rightly profited by their products. That past performance does not give them a lock on the market however. At times they seem to act as if it should, and charge accordingly. I am disappointed that they seem to use their reputation and especially their deep pockets to bully smaller competitors like Nokta, Quest & Rutus with the threat of lawsuit in our tort abuse USA legal system. 8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Past Member Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 Ditto to what JCR said. To add: With a monopoly, innovation moves much slower. In addition, a monopoly almost always means price gouging. In regards to that lawsuit with Minelab and the SMF / Legend...well, Nokta doesn't at all seem scared of it, considering they released 3 more of those detectors since then! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkerrj Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 I watched the Nokta video today with the heavily accented Lady and what got my attention was a PI machine in the future. Next question will be when? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCR Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 Their Relic PI is what I am waiting for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midalake Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 6 hours ago, ☠ Cipher said: I’ve been avoiding Nokta’s platforms opting to support Minelab instead. Nokta, has much to learn yet. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palzynski Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 11 hours ago, ☠ Cipher said: .... $279 for a waterproof Simultaneous Multifrequency Score. How do you compete with that? ... Some will say Minelab was overselling their technology and maybe that’s true. But how low is too low before it becomes predatory? The huge inflation rates in Turquey at the moment probably explains the very low Nokta prices . This might change in the future if their inflation goes down. Concerning ML yes I think they were ( and are ) overselling their technology , especially when you learn that they manufacture their products in Indonesia .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phrunt Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 We have to remember there is lucky to be $100 to $200 worth of hardware in detectors we can pay thousands for and I'm probably being very generous with those figures, the rest is made up out of costs of doing business, logistics, manufacturing costs, R&D, PROFITS and so on, yet Minelab often are reaching record profits, Nokta aren't doing "super cheap" detectors, they're making a reasonable profit too, they're just not over charging as much. Pricing has become this way due to lack of competition in the marketplace, now we are seeing competition forming and long overdue. I hope Garrett are going to join the group of competitive manufacturers, they've shown promise with the Axiom. Minelab get theirs made in Malaysia to lower costs further, just like the Chinese clones that have appeared of the Legend which of course are cheaper than the Legend itself, they can make stuff very cheap in that part of the world. It's often said Minelab spend so much on R&D their costs are justified, I don't believe that for a second. You just need to look at their engineering spend, 10% of revenue, and that includes 74% of that being on their communications business, with only 26% on metal detectors. Yes, they may spend what is considered big money on R&D, but by comparison to revenue it's not a big spend at all. And they have no problems at all with profits, even with Nokta heavily eating into their market, and this is likely to continue to eat into their profit, likely a lot more once this PI range comes out as they're their big money maker detectors, how many products are there in the world cost a few hundred bucks to make that manufacturers can sell for 9 to 10k Australian dollars. No sympathy from me towards Minelab, they have patents to protect their innovation, anything else is free game, and Minelab appear to be the experts at patenting their stuff so if Nokta can be doing to them what they're currently doing while doing it with their own innovation, well done Nokta and thank you. Detectors like the Equinox, X-Terra Pro cost very similar to the Manticore to make, These Score models would cost similar to the Legend. Does anyone believe a GPZ is really a detector that should cost $10,000 AUD? I'd love to see their profit on that thing. I do agree Minelab generally make the best of the best of many product lines, I mostly use their detectors myself, as soon as something better comes along from any other manufacturer, I'm right on it though as there is no loyalty from me. I buy to benefit me, not to benefit the business I'm buying from. Don't get me wrong, I do love my Minelab detectors, but I would love any detector I picked up that was as good, regardless of brand. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palzynski Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 40 minutes ago, phrunt said: ..Minelab get theirs made in Malaysia to lower costs further.. Nokta detectors are made in Turkey , XP detectors are made in France , ML in Malaysia and at the end ML is more expensive than the others .. The only reason is because they have high margins on their products . But this will probably wont last long with the current Nokta prices drop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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