Is The Day Of A Single Frequency Detector Past ?

[Alluminati]

11 minutes ago, phrunt said:

Sometimes it's best not to worry about how it works and just be satisfied that it does, I doubt there is another manufacturer of detectors out there that wish they didn't have it in their lineup, it's as simple as that.  Just enjoy the machine and leave the technicalities to Minelab and their competitors to bicker about, not that they currently have a threat from any other manufacturer in my opinion. 

Although perhaps Nokta in a few years might come out fighting.  If it didn't work as well as it does, nobody including the competitors would even care about multi IQ.  I hope other manufacturers prove me wrong and come out with detectors that absolutely blitzes the Minelab lineup.  We as consumers benefit if that happens.  I'm about as far from brand loyal as you can get, if someone makes a better detector within my price range, I'm swinging it.

Their slogan is "We change peoples fortunes", Well their detectors sure change their fortunes with the sales they're getting of their detectors, I am sure the other companies wish they were getting the sales Minelab are, it's not their marketing or gimmick slogans about their technologies doing it, it's the performance of their machines and word of mouth about how well they work.  I won't pretend to understand how any detector works, I just know the ones that work best for me.

Just my humble uneducated opinion, take it for what it's worth....

As a final note, I'd rather the next greatest machine come from anyone else other than Minelab, we need the competition.  So I'm rooting for Fisher, Teknetics, Nokta... anyone!

Sometimes we just want to discuss metal detectors, the interesting parts.

Why does everyone bring up Nokta? They aren't going to do, I hate to say it but neither is White's or Fisher, just based on probability. This has been going on now for close to 30 years. Minelab has had the best discrimination technology this whole time, since 1991.
Maybe some patents will expire, maybe the best chance is new tech, all the while the gears are still turning at Minelab.

Tesoro will have a mulit-freq out before White's or Fisher or Nokta. It will have to be more then a label, the proof is in the finds.

To be fair, it was XP Deus that obsoleted all other single freq detectors and made a nice compliment to a FBS/BBS. Now with the Equinox and it's Deus like adjust ability,  it pretty much covers both roles.

I can only speak for myself, but I didn't start buying Minelabs based off of marketing, I buy them based off results in the types of conditions I detect. 
At the time, I noticed most the best finds were being made by Explorers. 

[Dubious]

Alluminati, ok, I missed that--more shades of FBS--although it is hard to see how unamplified harmonics could be enough here.  As for the waveforms, I think we're both going to have to look for Geotech's screen shots. I'm not an engineer, but I think he's right that you can't voltage couple the signal.

[Alluminati]

1 minute ago, Dubious said:

Alluminati, ok, I missed that--more shades of FBS--although it is hard to see how unamplified harmonics could be enough here.  As for the waveforms, I think we're both going to have to look for Geotech's screen shots. I'm not an engineer, but I think he's right that you can't voltage couple the signal.

I didn't realize those threads are on his site, I was looking here for them the other night.

I'll have a look there tomorrow.

[Dubious]

45 minutes ago, phrunt said:

Sometimes it's best not to worry about how it works and just be satisfied that it does, I doubt there is another manufacturer of detectors out there that wish they didn't have it in their lineup, it's as simple as that.  Just enjoy the machine and leave the technicalities to Minelab and their competitors to bicker about, not that they currently have a threat from any other manufacturer in my opinion. 

. . . 

Oh, I agree; the Nox works just as well as it did and I will enjoy it just as much, although I am irritated that Minelab misled us on the technology.  But it is fun to speculate about some of the technicalities and to hear what others (who often know more than I do) have to say.

As for the competition, though, is the Nox really selling that much better than other detectors in its price range?  A lot of people really seem to like the Multi Kruzer, for instance, and the other manufacturers also have popular mid-priced machines.  Also, many probably buy the Nox because it is wireless and waterproof in a svelte package.  Multi-frequency machines probably are the future of VLF, but we're not entirely there, yet--not even as much as I had earlier thought with the Nox :) 

[EL NINO77]

16 hours ago, Dubious said:

Well, then, we need a detector with multiple frequencies, that uses 3 of them at a time, that can cover everything from deep silver to the smallest gold :)

As for dividing the power, I had (apparently mistakenly) thought that the Equinox overcame the problem by transmitting bursts of sine waves at each frequency, each burst after the other.  That is, five time slices, one for each frequency, so each burst of sine waves could be at full power, with the sequence repeating. But maybe this "sequential" approach wouldn't give the same multi-frequency effect.

So another development will be the dual "Core" multifrequency metal detector?

[Dubious]

8 hours ago, EL NINO77 said:

So another development will be the dual multifrequency metal detector?

I think the Equinox is the dual multifrequency metal detector.  It has 5 available frequencies, and apparently transmits in 2 of them at a time, determined by the mode selected.  If you meant hybrid--multifrequency VLF together with PI or something else--well, anything is possible and there are rumors of things coming, but I'm not going to hold my breath waiting.

[Dubious]

11 hours ago, phrunt said:

I would say the Nox is selling VERY well... this is Codan (Minelab's) share price, note the massive rise from January/February when the Nox came out.  It can't be attributed to anything other than the Nox, they haven't released anything else new and nothing else changed.

The dip there in November was pretty much ASX (Australian share market) wide.  Anyone who had faith in the Equinox and was investing in shares in Minelab did very well out of the release of the Equinox.

Quite a run up, all right.  But the gold machines (and whatever is happening in the gold fields) probably also had something to do with it, as a lot of Minelab's profit lies there.  Although I might prefer it to be an American company, I have to give Minelab credit for pushing the envelope with its VLF/PI machines, even though some models (those lacking real competition) appear outrageously overpriced.

[Mike Hillis]

Regards Dual Core.......Did you know that the Fisher Goldbug Pro/F19/G2/G2+ has two (2) processors?    There is so much going on in the background that we as users never see.

HH
Mike

[☠ Cipher]

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss First Texas with Carl and Dave Johnson et. al. On board. Carl did help bring the V3i, a 3 frequency machine, to market, and while I do not find it to be as stable across multiple environments as my Equinox, it is still my go to for most inland hunting. There are tasks the V3i is better at too. It is the best discriminator I've ever used in mild to moderate soil because of its tools and it's 3 frequencies. I find it's VDI to be unusually accurate. Of course I've dedicated a lot of time to that machine, but it's been worth it. And that 13" ultimate Detech brings the V3i to life in a way that no stock coils do, remarkably so. Dave did bring the CZs to market, which have stood the test of time. The F75 is a single frequency machine that operates like a multi in many ways. Still one of the very best machines out there.

Additionally, It is not common knowledge that Whites would be a lot further in the game if they hadn't stifled their engineers to a point where they felt the need to exit and/or go elsewhere. I have no doubt that the day is coming when First Texas is sitting in the catbird seat because of people like Carl. The things they were working on over there at Whites when everyone left, the world may never see from Whites now. The company gave away more than many companies accomplish. 

I agree with Carl in some respects and I agree with Steve in some. Though it is the performance that makes the machine, and I'm a happy Equinox owner, I don't care for the marketing tactics. They are disingenuous, as are many others,' and many units are sold based on marketing alone. I have spent a lot of time on social media and various forums to see people say they picked a particular machine solely on the basis of the number of frequencies it claims to run. In fact, this even affects Minelab purchase decisions as many people who own FBS products will not buy an Equinox saying things like "there's no way a 5 frequency machine can do better than a 28 frequency machine." If they understood the technical truth of the matter sooner they'd find that neither of them are either of that, and that the Equinox does actually have strengths that the even the CTX lacks. So my position would be that, yes most, if not all marketing departments use hyperbole, mislead, etc., it is important for there to be a rebuttal of those tactics by competitors when it comes to specific claims or implied claims that are being used for purchase decisions.

A little bit of knowledge is dangerous and that's what the vast majority of us have. Enough to be mislead, until we arrive at a point Steve has, where you say there's more to this than meets the eye without a full time career in it. I'll just stick to informed purchase decisions and what works. Learning not only are some machines not running as many as we've been misled to believe, but that it's also not a frequency numbers game to begin with is part of an informed purchase decision. Don't look at the numbers, but how people are saying it works. I do however think that going forward it's important for consumers understand that. If something better than the Equinox comes along running less than 5 frequencies or less than 28 in the case of marketing of FBS, many people will be cheating themselves going by specs that aren't easily understood until the real world checks in. Often unless there's a revolutionary difference it never does for some people until they read a thread like this and begin to question what they thought they knew. I've done a lot of research not only on metal detector technology, but the history behind companies and engineers. I've always found Carl himself to want to be accurate, honest and helpful. I don't think he's motivated solely by self promotion or promotion of FTP.