abenson

So having used and test the Garrett Ace Apex for a bit now. I've come up with some things I do and don't like about the machine. If anyone is on the fence about buying one this might help you make up your mind. I think Garrett is heading in the right direction with all the modern features they have included on the Apex. Here's what I really like about the Garrett Ace Apex. 1. Wireless headphones 2. Backlight display 3. Rechargeable battery 4. Easy to navigate menu 5. Easy to read display 6. Great sleek look 7. Light weight 8. Ground balance capabilities 9. Weatherproof design 10. Adjustable frequencies What I don’t like and why, yea I know you can’t have everything you want with a $425 machine. 1. Lack of accessory coils-IMO the 6” x 11” Viper coil is too big for trashy sites and not big enough for clean sites. 2. Iron audio-IMO the iron audio on the Apex is pretty much worthless. It’s too loud even on 1 and the machine can’t reset fast enough and drowns out good signals close to iron when iron audio is used. 3. Notch discrimination-notching out 5 segments at a time is too many. With the Apex already struggling at depth and in iron, you need to be able to notch out one number at a time so you don’t lose targets in iron or make them even more jumpy when the target is deep. 4. Lack of adjustable tones-5 tones on this machine doesn’t work well, especially in iron trash. The iron tone and the very low conductor tones are too close in sound. Yea you can hear the difference but since this machine pulls down target ID so bad in iron, a 2 tone option or even a 3 tone would be much better so there is a distinct separation of the audio. 5. Lack of usable search modes-Really all you get with the Apex is set discrimination patterns, not search modes. When you change modes you simply notch out different segments you may not want to dig. Depth and separation remain the same, many other machines on the market both more and less expensive change the recovery and depth in relation to the mode you choose. For those of you that have the Apex or even if you don't, I would be interested in what your thoughts are on the Apex.

I've dug many iron backed military buttons that come up as a 1 or 2. Cuff sized Navy and Eagle A buttons would also fall through the scoop depending on mesh size, I know they are small enough to go through mine.

Like I found out it's only standardized if you have an actual board Monte builds which you can purchase from him. The board I printed is way harder than his board. When you watch my tests on my board it's a head to head comparison. You can't duplicate the same results I get. That's why there was so much controversy over my Apex test. Because on Montes board the Apex does much better than on my board, same with the Vanquish. I don't think anybody is really out to skew the results in favor of one detector over the other, at least I'm not. The thing you have to remember is that many variables come into play that you or another person might not be able to duplicate. That's why I always put up one detector against another on the nail board test. Then it shows how each one does against the other. At that point it's a fair comparison it's not like I put one detector on a harder test than the other just so I can say one is better than the other.

The Tarsacci really is one of those machines you need time on before you can form an opinion of it. When I got my first one I really took a liking to it immediately (and that was before I started using salt balance inland). I could see from the start that it was right up there in depth between the Equinox and a PI in my bad dirt. Others really have a hard time with the audio and give up too fast without really getting to know it. A person really needs to experiment a lot with settings to get the optimal performance in their dirt/sand. The key in the beginning is getting the Tarsacci to run quiet using a combination of GB, salt balance, KHz, sensitivity and threshold. Once you've done that and are comfortable with the audio then you can start to push it.

I put the Apex on eBay a few days to see if it would sell at $340 plus $20 shipping (that's $65 less than the going price new). Got a lot of questions about how I liked it and why I was selling it. Also got a bunch of low ball offers at $250-$300. I assume from this the Apex isn't going to be a hot seller used. When I sold my Vanquish 540 pro package it was gone at $425 plus $20 shipping in a matter of hours. So if I have to give the Apex away I guess I'll keep it and see what additional coils/updates come out in the future. From the 20 hours or so I have on the Apex I really can't see myself using it for anything but urban clad coin hunting. If they bring out a smaller coil it might do OK in a ghost town.

Correct the Apex is not as fast as the Equinox even with the Equinox wearing an 11" coil.

I was hoping for some multi frequency competition from Garrett. But as it stands right now they aren't even close to what Minelab has. I honestly can't tell much of a difference in performance between multi and single frequency on the Apex. Yes its stable in MS on the beach but the Vanquish is still a better machine for less money. IMO Garrett should have waited until they had something better, instead of rushing a multi frequency to market just to say they had one. The thing that disappoints me is that it doesn't even give the Vanquish a run for the money. The Apex is a bit better at separation in iron if you have it setup right than the Vanquish but not by much. On the other hand the Vanquish is deeper and more stable. Maybe they will surprise us all with an AT Apex that will really shine. In the mean time I'm waiting for the Equinox 1000.

Yea I decided I'm going to sell mine. I just don't need another mid-priced detector. Great for urban park hunting but I just don't do much of that anymore and when I do I only dig deep signals. In that case the deeper signals are out of range for the Apex. Probably through it on one of the Facebook Garrett Apex user forums since that's where the Garrett fans hang out.

My iron program is based off the deep program. Disc 8.7, iron vol 3, sensitivity 90, 31 KHz, reactivity 4, silencer -1, 5 tones with breaks at 8.7, 50, 80 and 97. The first and last breaks the tones are set to 202. 2nd break set at 367, 50-80 is at 593 and 80-97 is at 993. As you know with the HF coil 31 KHz up averages everything. So everything but nickels and similar items are in the 80-97 bracket. The mid tone I scrutinize closely in iron as it usually represents a masked target. You also have to be careful with the break at 97 because bigger silver like halves and dollars can come in that high. But where I'm using this program there is little chance of that happening.

Sorry here is the link. Iron Masking

I know there's already a bunch of stuff written on iron masking. But there might be some new readers that could benefit. Over on Monte's forum I started a discussion on iron masking didn't get a lot of response but Monte did write some very informative responses if you want to visit the topic on his site it's under the relic/old site hunting section. Here's the video. Would love any additional comments on the subject if anyone would like to interject. I'm no expert and certainly don't know everything about every metal detector out there so I'm open to any constructive criticism or comments.

I've conversed with Monte a few times about these videos that Garrett released and why Garrett seems to do so much better than what I got or even he got. I think I already posted (I can't remember) about my nail board being smaller than the official Monte Nail Board so Monte sent me one. Sure enough the Apex does do better on his official sized board I can get 6 out of 8 rather than 4 out of 8. But on the flip side the Simplex and the F19 do even better. The other thing that makes the Apex perform better in iron is coil height above the ground. We found that if you hold the coil approximately 3.5-4 inches about the nail board or the line of nails and coins the Apex does much better. Now in the real world I don't go around swinging my coil that far off the ground, 2 inches at most. But at least the info is there if you happened to need better performance. Obviously that's only going to work for surface targets.

I think a lot of people have lost interest in the Apex. With any metal detector I get I like to put it through all my tests and hunting grounds to see where it fits with the other units I have. I've taken it to parks to coin hunt, a really trashy ghost town and an old relic site. At this point I can say that it wouldn't be my first choice in any of those scenarios but you can make it work and you will find stuff. I'm going to hang onto it and see if they bring out some new coils for it. But as it stands it's a mediocre performer as it should be at the price. It's been a long time since I used an Ace detector and that was a 250, I can say I do like it a lot better than the 250. I also had an AT Pro and I still think I like the AT Pro performance better but the Apex is better in the ergonomics department. Better balanced, better display, better looking and wireless headphones built in.

If you want to see the Apex in the action in the field here is a video I did over the weekend. Didn't compare it to anything in this video just got out and hunted with it.

When I coin hunt it's usually only for older coins. So I want a metal detector that can not only go deep but have an accurate ID at depth in my bad soil. Equinox 800 fits that bill for me, nothing else but a FBS machine can come close.

The Apex is a great detector with lots of nice features. Get to know it and enjoy it. I personally am critical of metal detectors because of the tough conditions I use them in. But for someone just getting into the hobby it's a great one to start with.

I said I was done with the videos about the Apex but I had to do one more that does show some improvement on the in-line nail coin test. I have no problem admitting that sometimes there's a better way to do things, I would like to see Garrett succeed just as much the next guy, so anything that shows improved performance is welcome. If you're only interested in those results skip to 2:46 in the video. FYI Monte Berry posted somewhat of a review on metaldetectingforum.com that pretty much matches what I've been saying about the Apex. He's also the one who suggested using iron audio off for the best results. Monte does pretty thorough tests and misses very little. You can see his comments here Apex comments The rest of the video addresses some of the comments made on Facebook about my previous videos. The only link I posted to the video was on this forum but someone posted it to an Apex users group and let the fun begin. You'd think I killed their favorite dog. It is what is. So i'm sure someone will find this video and post it there as well, not going to be me though. If people watch it at least they will know where I'm coming from.

Update on the chatter issue I talked about earlier with the Apex. I took the Equinox to the same park and definitely EMI. Equinox was almost as bad, noise cancel made no difference. Lowered sensitivity on the Equinox to 14 and ran in 15 KHz just to make it bearable but even then still chatty. Must be a cellphone tower or underground high voltage line in the area.

Last night I took the Apex out to a local park for about an hour (remember I have bad ground). Boy was I lost in all the noise that thing was making and I know my way around metal detectors pretty well. Could have been EMI could have been the ground minerals or iron/junk in the ground I don't know. I tried everything, different modes, sensitivity down, different KHz, turned it off and on, etc. It definitely is not this bad at my house. I contacted another person who I know has the Apex to see if they had experienced anything like that themselves, haven't heard back yet. But I also came across this video of the Apex doing the same thing. So my question at this point after watching the above video, hearing the makers comments, and experiencing a similar situation. Is the Apex even a beginner/intermediate metal detector? I can't imagine a beginner going through the same issues and not wrapping the thing around a tree. I plan to go back tonight and figure out what was going on. I'm taking along the Equinox as well to compare some signals.

The Apex in coin or jewelry mode vs the Simplex in Park 1 or Park 2 mode actually gets it's butt kicked worse. Apex in pro zero is actually the best performing mode in iron and that's why it was used.

I'm thinking EMI. I can't run the Equinox in multi frequency in one of the parks close to me because the EMI is so bad. You should try using it in a single frequency like 15 or 20 KHz and see if that makes a difference.

Yea well since the question was raised I figured I would go ahead and put that to rest. In all honesty it did make it hit one more direction, Hurray now we're up to 50% on the NBPT. I run iron audio on with all my detectors and it makes absolutely no difference on separation performance. So if this is an issue with Garrett detectors they better get it fixed.

I've got a lot of extra time on my hands right now. Transition between seasons and school starting is slow for my business this time of year. So I've been spending some time metal detecting and making videos. Hope you like it. Book value is $500 plus.

OK new comparison and probably the last one for me. Doing this one because Monte made a comment on another forum about the Apex needing to have iron audio off in order for it to perform better on the nail board test. I thought I would throw the F19 into this video since it's in the price range of the Apex. IMO the Apex is just another choice in the $250-450 price range and it's going to come down to the features and performance you want as to which metal detector you chose. Like Steve, I feel like it's closest competition is the Vanquish 540 at $369 and to me the Apex isn't worth the extra money. Funny I should say that because I don't have the Vanquish anymore.

I appreciate the work you put into the graph. Sorry, I kind of rushed through my evaluation on some of the detectors because I was mostly concerned with comparing the Apex and the Simplex. Your red squares with no signal aren't exactly accurate (not that you didn't read my report right) but because I didn't give enough information. The Deus can see all the targets it's just that the ones in red gave a high 90's ID which could be anything so I would say marginal signal. Same goes for the Racer 2 red should be marginal signal. F19 marginal signal on the 6" nickel and quarter, the rest red as you have them.