abenson

I recently picked up a Garrett Ace Apex with 3 coils for a very good price locally. This is the second one I have owned. I spent the last few weeks doing some indoor and outdoor tests as well as some park hunting to get reacquainted with it. I stated on the Garrett forum that I would give the Apex another chance and do some infield testing against the Equinox and Simplex and report back. I had a chance to spend about 5 hours at a relic site over the weekend and do just that. The site has had mixed usage since the late 1850’s and includes Military artifacts as well as more modern house site items. The site has been hammered over the last 6 decades and so I thought it would be the perfect test. Ground is 4-5 bars on the F75 and is for the most part loaded with iron except farther out where we will usually just find fired .58 cal bullets, shotgun and .22 brass. I started with the Apex 8.5 x 11 coil out where we usually just find bullets running MF, custom program where everything is accepted over 20 and sensitivity all the way up. My goal was to just see if I could find bullets, no comparisons were done. I quickly found out the sensitivity was too high as I got a lot of false signals and chased a few ghost signals. Once turned down 1 bar the Apex ran smooth. I managed to find 4 .58 cal bullets and a few .22 and shotgun brass. Deepest bullet was 6 inches and was a very jumpy signal. I’ve done a video in the past digging bullets with the Apex in this same area if you want to see it you can find it in the Garrett forum. It’s under 10 things I like and 5 I don’t like about the Apex. Unlike the Equinox in this same area, the Apex has a real hard time identifying deep large targets vs small .22 brass. The signals are jumpy in both regards and hard to determine depth. Next I moved to an area close by that has produced quite a few buttons and dropped bullets in the past. The area is very trashy in places with glass shards and square nails. I used the Equinox 800 with the 11” coil running Park 1, 50 tones, iron bias F2 0, recovery 4, Multi and sensitivity 22. The Equinox 600 can be setup exactly the same way. I proceeded to mark 8 targets that came in at as low as 1 up to the highest being 15 on the Equinox. All of these targets were located in the trashy areas. The Simplex 11” coil Park 2 was able to see all but 2 targets, one being a small pewter button about 3 inches deep the other being a fired percussion cap also about 3 inches deep. The Apex 8.5 x 11 coil unfortunately was only able to see 2 targets. The first being a large pewter button maybe and 1 inch deep the other being a fired percussion cap on the surface. A small Navy cuff button laying on the surface (that only read 1 on the Equinox) was surprising invisible to the Apex. Granted there were a lot of iron signals around it. Last area, the house site. This time I started with the Simplex 11” coil running park 2. Now I know what some of you are going to say. Why use the larger coils in trashy sites? I wanted to see what the stock coils would do, I consider the 8.5 x 11 the stock coil for the Garrett machines. Yes I may have gotten better results with the Apex using a smaller coil. Anyway, I located and marked 4 targets with the Simplex. The Equinox was able to see all 4 but did struggle with one, all explain in a minute. The Apex was able to see 3 out of the 4, but was totally blind to the one the Equinox struggled with. Target 1 was a modern penny about 1 inch deep and was not a problem for any of the detectors. Target 2 was a small piece of decorative brass about 2 inches deep which all the detectors saw. But the Apex numbers were all over the place where as the Equinox was a solid 14 and the Simplex a solid 44. Target 3 turned out to be a 1929 S wheat penny at 5 inches deep. The Simplex read 66-68 and could get the signal as I rotated all the way around it. The Equinox struggled, first direction I tried got nothing but iron grunts. But as I rotated around it, I started to get a choppy signal that would bounce up to about 17. The Apex got nothing but iron grunts no matter what I tried. Signal 4 turned out to be a 1946 dime at about 3 inches and was a good solid signal on all the detectors. I also located 2 old clay marbles while I was walking around the house site. In a relic hunting scenario, the Equinox and Simplex have a clear advantage over the Apex. The Apex likes round objects and does the best on them and has a fairly accurate ID. Odd shapes are not it’s strong point for sure. But for someone who only wants to dig coins, it could be great. I will also say that of the 3 the Apex was most comfortable to swing and I think I like the wireless headphones the best on the Apex. In the future I plan to take the same 3 machines to a ghost town and the beach to see how they stack up against each other. I will say that the more I use the Simplex the more I see just how great a value this machine is. For the money you can’t beat it.

I was a Whites user until I bought a Fisher CZ 6a in about 1992 I believe. Minelab came out with the Sovereign in 1991 but I didn't know anything about Minelab, so I chose the Fisher. I was mainly a beach and park hunter at the time so the Fisher CZ fit the bill perfectly (the thing loved deep nails though). My Dad however, purchased both the Minelab Sovereign and Fisher CZ 6a shortly after I bought the CZ. We soon found out the Sovereign out performed the CZ in almost every aspect except target separation. So I bought a Sovereign myself about a year later and the CZ sat in the closet at home. So since 1991 the CZ series has changed very little and they are just now discontinuing it in 2021. 30 years, not a bad run but at the same time look at Minelab and what they have done with simultaneous multi frequency over the same 30 years. And yea they have literally put a few companies out of business. Is there a market for the CZ in a new box with rechargeable batteries, wireless headphones and waterproof? Maybe, but at this point it would seem more like a move in desperation rather than innovation.

If you plan on getting in the water, then the ATX or Equinox. If you just plan on hunting the wet sand, I would personally go with the GPX, because it has a far better coil choice. Some worry that the salty air will screw up the electronics in the GPX. However I've used mine at the beach for about 4 years now without a problem. You do need to use electronics cleaner on the switches to keep them clean, but the box is actually pretty tight. I actually dropped a GP 3500 in the water once and quickly got it out and turned it off. Took it home and pulled the ends off the box to find very little water in the box. let it sit for a day and it fired right up.

Well I think the F2 F4 and F5 have been replaced by the F11, F22 and F44 but I could be wrong. I'm surprised the F19 is no longer available, that was one of my favorites. F70 looks like it is going too, as well as the CZ 3D. That doesn't leave much. I hope they plan on releasing some new models soon, otherwise they may be on their way out. They can't live off the F75 models they are too outdated and lack performance compared to a lot of what is out there.

Minelab GPX we use them in the bad soil of Culpeper VA all the time. It's the detector of choice for relics in that soil.

I don't think the coil is the issue. I think the issue is the dirt. My Apex does the same thing with the viper coil. Anything over about 5 inches deep the target ID is very unstable. My soil is also very mineralized. I have a video digging fired .58 cal minie balls (which is a fairly large target) with the Apex. Bullets that are approximately 7 inches deep give a mostly iron ID with an occasional number ID. The Apex I just got, came with a 8.5x11 coil so I plan on going back to that site and seeing if the bigger coil changes things. The few times I used the Apex in heavily iron infested sites, it drove me nuts. One thing I did learn while I had the first one is that if you hold the coil about 4 inches off the ground it separates better. That will work in ghost towns where the stuff it close to the surface. But it's not practical to use anywhere else. Here's the video for those that want to see it.

I don't prospect as much as most, mainly a winter activity for me. But I can tell you I've done better at beaches finding jewelry than I have prospecting for nuggets. About 6 years ago I recovered over 200 gold rings in one season. On average they were 10k and weighed about 4 grams each. That's 800 grams at 42% gold. That same year I bet I found less than 5 grams of gold prospecting.

Jeff sounds like similar experience with the Apex as I had performance wise. I've had a few people tell me I didn't give the Apex enough time and that I didn't know how to properly set it up. Ok then.......enough said on that subject. Funny thing is I just picked up one the other day at one of the local clubs. I just couldn't pass up the deal and figured I could make money on it worst case scenario. $435 for the Apex with headphones and 3 coils. So I'll be running the Apex through Parks, ghost towns, military camps and the beach this Fall and comparing it to the Simplex and Equinox specifically. I'll report back periodically and shoot some video.

Had two Mojave's, one bought brand new the other used, I think new they were $285 if I remember right. I can't imagine paying more than about $300 for one no matter what the condition. But that's just me. Beep and digs can be both fun and frustrating. I'm all for the new tech now, Target ID, wireless headphones, multiple target tones, etc. I don't think I could go back.

I've heard the same thing only it was supposed to be earlier in the year like in July. But that obviously got pushed back.

I had absolutely no issues with the headphones coming unpaired unless I was too far away from the unit. One time I walked back to my truck and left the Apex sitting about 50 yards away. Of course it lost the connection when I got too far out. But as soon I was back in range it paired right back up.

When I had the Apex I mostly compared it to other metal detectors in it's price range on video. I also did my own comparisons to the Equinox but I knew that wasn't the market Garrett was going after. The amount of coils available for the Apex is amazing! I also hear the recent update has solved a few early issues. I didn't have a lot of the issues others have complained about such as uncontrolled chatter and jumpy ID on targets less than about 5" deep. I've even contemplated buying another Apex but at this point with Nokta Makro, XP and Minelab slated to come out with new models. I figure why bother.

Yea western ghost towns tend to have the targets laying on top of or just below the surface. So the 2D test is very relevant for those situations. Hunting a ploughed field is a different story and in that scenario I've found that some detectors do well while others don't. Mineralization also plays a big part and can often mask targets just like iron does.

I own a 4000 and have put 1000's of hours on it. But have also borrowed the 4500 and 5000 from friends on multiple occasions. Never saw the need to get either the 4500 or 5000 because I was never after the small gold in bad ground. That being said I have played with the different timings and noted that certain targets switch from a high tone to a low tones and visa versa. If I'm relic hunting and there is a lot of small wire/nails I will usually run the salt timing and it will knock most of that stuff out or make it sound broken with a DD coil using iron disc. I've had a lot of relic hunters say they will run enhanced timing in the Virginia soil so that most all the targets (buttons and bullets) they are after sound the same. I would assume they are also losing some depth running that aggressive timing. I will usually run normal of sensitive smooth since that VA soil isn't bad enough to run aggressive timings IMO. Kind of makes me want to get a 6000 so I can experiment. If it proves that it can be used effectively for relics/beach hunting I just might get one in the future.

I don't have the GPX 6000 but if I did I would definitely be experimenting. One question Steve. On the forth set I find it interesting that the quarters, dimes, etc move to a high tone on difficult, the same as the foil and small gold. Seems like it would remain a low tone. It's almost like it wrapping back around. Can you explain why it's doing that? Or maybe there is no explanation. On the 4000-5000 I always just used Salt, Normal or sensitive extra for beach or relic hunting. Most coins would always stay a low tone. I never used sensitive smooth or fine gold as the ground has never been bad enough to use those settings. But maybe the older GPX's do a similar thing on the difficult ground settings.

I think anymore just because it's SMF doesn't mean it's better. We can see this in the Apex, CZ and DFX platforms. Yea they handle salt water beaches better than a single frequency machine. But it's now about the signal processing and what's happening internally. Minelab is decades ahead of the other manufactures in this regard. No other manufacture can process out the ground signal (and other variables) and deliver as accurate ID as the ML machines can or as deep. Yea the ML machines struggle in tough iron infested sites, we have other machines that we can choose from to fit that bill. It's going to be tough for NM to top that with their first attempt IMHO. As seen with the Apex, regardless as to whether they were trying to give the Equinox/Vanquish a run for the money or not, makes little difference. That's what many perceived was happening and that's what the Apex was/is measured up against. I think it would be to NM benefit to they make sure they get it right the first time and delay introduction until thy are happy with the results. We already see it being/hoping it's competition for the Equinox and we don't even know when it will be released yet. For NM to release it and it not being able to compete with the Vanquish/Equinox platform would be a mistake IMHO.

I've dug 4 now with the Equinox 800 and all of them bounced between 17 and 18.

I've owned all 3 and used all 3 enough to know the in's and out's of them. Of the 3 I still have a Simplex. But of the 3 I would recommend the Vanquish 540 over the rest. The only reason I don't have the 540 anymore is because it's too close in operation to the Equinox and I already have the 800. IMO and from the feedback I've received from those I've lent them to. The Vanquish is the easiest to operate and you dig the least amount of trash. The target ID on the Vanquish is very accurate to almost full depth and that's in my mineralized soil. They all have their pluses and minuses. The Apex is a great feeling and well packaged machine. But honestly the audio is a little tricky for a beginner and the modes available don't really give it that much versatility compared to the modes on the other 2. I let one of my friends that has been metal detecting a bit try out the Apex when I had it and his comment was this thing is all over the place with the audio. We were at a park and he was really having a hard time isolating targets in all the trash. The Simplex is waterproof has all the latest features like rechargeable batteries, wireless audio, etc. just like the others. But it's a little nose heavy and the lower shaft is a noodle so upgrade to the carbon fiber if you get it. The ground balance and modes available on the Simplex give it great versatility as well. It's Really simple to use and all a beginner has to do is change modes based on the site conditions and hunt. No need to change a bunch of settings to make it work. Great in iron trash (the best you'll find at the price) and respectable depth. The Vanquish 540 lacks ground balance but I never had a place where I felt like I had to have it. The modes available are a lot like the Simplex, it's very versatile, even more so than the Simplex in some cases (Saltwater beach hunting). It struggles a little in iron trash at separation. But when it locks on to a target it really lets you know and the ID doesn't get dragged down as bad or the Simplex or Apex. The Vanquish is a little nose heavy and the overall appearance looks dated but overall I feel like it's the best choice for a beginner.

If I'm reading your post right. When you use discrimation on the Tarsacci and run it above zero it becomes a notch discrimination. It notches out 4 numbers at a time.. So if you run it up to +30 it's going to disc out +28 to +30. If you run it up to +10 it will notch out +8 to +12. So when you set the disc at a number all targets within a plus or minus 2 will be silenced. Also everything below zero will also be silenced.. Hope that helps.

Yes Gregg it was going seeing you as well.

Thanks Jeff Yea the Simplex is quite capable at most detecting scenarios and handles iron well. I just prefer the more accurate ID of the Equinox when park hunting. Most of the old coins I'm digging are at about the 6" plus range. But otherwise the Simplex will handle parks, just not my preference.

I probably would be horrified at what you toss. But I'm sure coins and token make into your pocket LOL. I'm glad you enjoyed the video. Had to cut a lot out so it wasn't 2 hours long.

Tom we'll have to meet in the middle sometime. Would love to hunt with you.

Spent 4 days in Nevada last week and hit 4 different places that consisted of a Military Fort and 3 ghost towns all on private property. Found a nice assortment of stuff. Coins are pretty crusty but should clean up OK. The holed looking coin turn out to be a ration token that has been counter stamped a bunch of time. It reads U.S, Subsistence Department on the one side and had One ration on the other.

Got permission for a construction site to dig bottles over Memorial Day weekend. The bottles were dating from 1860 to 1900 most of them 1880's. We dug over 60 bottles, I came home with at least 2 dozen decent ones. Had a great time with my Brother-in-law and a few friends. picked up a few wheat pennies in the waste piles and my Brother-in-law was lucky enough to find a valuable token. Sorry don't have a picture of it. Video below if you want to watch it. Sorry the audio kind of muffled in spots.