GB_Amateur

The Manticore manual gives a description of how the Noise Cancel is done. I paste here the pertinent snippets: Note it says "slightly shift transmit frequency" (emphasis mine). It also explains what the continuous method (holding down the key until a stable channel is seen) to "find the quietest channel". Nowhere does it say the sensitivity is adjusted nor the frequency weighting is adjusted. Those would be significant adjustments affecting performance (probably in a negative way compared to quiet operation) and to hide that from the user would be egregious, IMO. Which detector is that, and was it done surreptitiously or did they tell the users about it (e.g. in the user manual)?

I believe that LGM (that's "little green men") are running around inside the Manticore waving magic wands to accomplish the noise reduction. So how do we decide which one of these competing hypotheses is correct (if either)? Not be repeating it over and over like Dorothy when she tried to get from Oz back to Kansas ("There's no place like home; there's no place like home;..."). Short of getting a Minelab engineer to tell us (not holding my breath) it's going to take experimentation.

I ask because I was trying to help narrow down the possible cause of the VDI spread and up-averaging problems. Since your test garden coins were 4" (dime) and 6" (nickel and quarter), if the air-test VDI values are stable at those distances then that minimizes the chance it's a coil-to-target distance related problem. FWIW I just added another coin to my test garden -- 8.5" deep clad quarter to go along with 5" deep 95% copper cent and 6" deep 25% Ni 'nickel' 5-center. It's nice enough today for me to do some testing with the Manticore. I think it's worth pointing out, including reminding myself, that the 900 and M'core are not the same detector, so trying to tie the performance of one (which I've seen a few do here) with the other is walking on shaky ground. But still each one by itself is certainly worth figuring out and reporting on.

I'd like to comment but first I have a question: when you say "surface ID", how far above the coin is the coil when you determine this?

I can't and won't comment on the 900/700, not having ever had my hands on one nor do I plan to for long enough to reach a conclusive, independent view. In addition I'm far from reaching conclusions with the Manticore and refuse to be dragged into an argument with people who have too few hours with theirs while I await the hundred(s) of hours it's going to take me to reach that conclusion. (If someone chooses to take that any way but literally s/he is way off base. I don't typically reach conclusions easily, with good reason.) It's interesting that when the Equinox 800/600 came out, and for quite a while after that, some people were complaining about too few target ID channels leading them to have to dig trash which they thought should have been separable from their favorite targets. I'm not pointing a hypocritical finger as am willing to assume that these two groups are on opposite sides of the fence. My point is in line with that common statement "you can please some of the people some of the time..."

I think that last qualification is very important, and it's not just the Culpeper, Virginia hot dirt and Northern California serpentine that distinguish tough ground vs. Florida peninsula beach sand vs. everywhere else. I don't live in the mountains nor in a metal ore rich area but it absolutely matters when a small coin (95% copper penny, 25% Ni 5-center, silver dime) gets about 5" deep when comparing VDI on the F75 vs. the better multifrequency detectors that you mention. I'm not talking about changing a few VDI numbers, I'm talking going from non-ferrous to ferrous VDI and tones. or at least a mixture of those two, soon (another inch) to be simply ferrous.

I may be missing something, but don't you still need an oscilloscope (or spectrum analyzer) with Fourier Transform readout to conclude what frequency(ies) is(are) being transmitted?

An option for Codan is to sell off Minelab. Would we consumers be better off if that were to occur? There seem to be a couple themes that pop up here occasionally: 1) "buy American!" and 2) "how do we save metal detecting"? 1) In 2023 how much does it matter where a detector is designed and (separate issue) made? Is country of origin more important than product quality and performance? Product price? I doubt it matters much in most of the world. Does putting importance on that actually help a company survive/thrive in the long run? I think most of us prefer competition. I don't see how assigning importance to nationality helps that. One could argue that the demise of USA detector manufacturers was partly a result of this traditional viewpoint, but that may simply be a convenient, unrelated piece of information. 2) I have multiple interests that share something in common: 'membership'/motivation are dominated by old people. We revert to when we took up the endeavor (many of us were young then) and how much fun and excitement were part of it at that time. We then (possibly) mistakenly think that young people today would have that same experience. Taking off the proponent hat and standing back looking at the situation objectively, it doesn't seem as though that is the case. The detector manufacturers have to deal with the above when trying to build/keep a profitable business. Those who have other forms of income (parent companies Codan and First Texas being examples) sometimes seem to be out-of-sync with some of our wishes but they have different priorities and IMO it helps to understand that.

'Gold Prospectors' were listed on both slides (Recreation and Gold Mining). Presumably the split has to do with amateur vs. professional use. Have the resources that interest the pros been depleted in North America vs., for example, South America? Thanks for the report of the report, especially for distilling it down to the key pages. Seems their profits on the metal detecting side are down considerably comparing first half of FY23 to first half of FY22. But will the release of the three new IB/VLF's (deep into first half of FY23 before they even started trickling in) make up for much of that deficit? I suppose FY22 included the early sales of the GPX6000 which may be a higher profit detector (unit price and count) since it is sought by both amateurs and small-scale pros alike. As always, "time will tell".

Well done video for showing the 2-d screen, VDI's, and allowing us to hear the tones. I was surprised that last target was an Indian Head Cent. My air tests (in All Terrain General) had 95% copper IHC's anywhere from low 50's to about 64, depending upon the particular coin. (Don't want people to interpret this as the VDI spread on a single coin...). 12% nickel early IHC's are more like low 40's in those air tests. I have noticed, however, that in some in-ground coins that AT high conductors will sometimes show considerably different VDI's than AT Low Conductors and AT General and I'm pretty sure most/all of this video you were hunting AT High C. However, now that I think about it, you switched to those other two AT modes (Low C and General) to check the VDI on that target and they were about the same as what AT High C showed. Possibly other settings also affect the VDI's. I need way more time with mine before drawing conclusions. That sure is a juicy detecting location you have there! The 1923 Standing Liberty Quarter is a pretty good find, even with most of the date missing. As you may know, pre-1925 SLQ's had the date standing up high on a base which led the dates to wear rather quickly. Any pre-1925 with recognizable date+mintmark is a tough find.

All I can think of is that a day detecting with both klunker and Sourdough Scott must be like going detecting with the Marx Brothers.

Given they've recently filed for bankruptcy and are in the process of going-out-of-business (closing brick-and-mortar stores), more likely they're selling First Texas models, and at full retail prices if the sale complaints are any indication.

Does Tom Dankowski count? 😁

It's not 66 g (2 1/3 oz = 1/7 of a lb) at the center of mass (i.e. near the handle) but rather the torque (think 'leverage') generated a meter away. DSMITH explicitly said "toe heavy" and you even quoted that.

In the IB/VLF space you need to make a competitive multifrequency detector to get much notice. (The Garrett Apex didn't seem to make the 'competitive' grade.) There's still hope for Garrett anyway, but as time ticks by others like Quest (their MF entries still vaporware as far as consumers are concerned, though, so TBD) are beating them to the punch. At least Garrett arrived in time with their Axiom dry-land PI, giving Minelab enough concern to drastically drop the price here in the USA on their GPX6000.

IMO, there should be a balance between the euphoria and wishful thinking of considering a find being rare (and valuable) vs. the likely eventual reality. My approach is to begin with the former but not to carry it to the latter extreme. A few nights sleep along with considering opinions of others helps a lot. Time deadens the fickle emotions and lets logic/reason spill through. Every coin I pull from the ground is the Holy Grail of numismatics until I see evidence to the contrary. Usually that evidence comes quickly; occasionally it takes awhile. I will say this -- somewhat contrary to other replies -- experts (true or supposed) can be wrong. Many have the tendency to immediately blow off a query, partly because of how many junk finds they have to 'appraise' (for free). I think the Rocks, Minerals, and Geology forum here is a decent example. How many fairly common, 'worthless' specimen photos (more often than not out-of-focus) land here, and this isn't primarily a geology site. It's easy to empathize with the 'experts' when they get frustrated. But sometimes.... The key -- and this is the only way to go -- is to listen and strongly consider the reasons given. If you don't get reasons then ignore the opinion as it may well not have firm ground to stand on. You can keep the door open without arguing with every person who tries to close it. Eventually the evidence will clarify and one needs to be ready for that. In the meantime while you're still holding that door open, even if just by a crack, put yourself in the other person's shoes and respect their views, usually simply keeping your mouth (and fingers) quiet. It's OK to disagree in silence.

F350's image shows two patent dates. I think one is from 1937 and the other from (June 17) 1890? Since yours only has the June 17 one it likely is older than what he has shown. As you've noted there are some differences, likely made for either added utility or to save on manufacturing costs. Just WAGging here.... Patents can be looked up online if you want to dig that deeply.

2/3 of the thickness is copper core. 1/6 thickness for each of the 75%Cu 25% Ni layer. You'd have to make a very deep scratch to get down to the core. Since you've decided scratching it is OK, just take a file to the edge, perpendicular to the face, cutting a notch. I would think the original orange color of the core would show up then.

I've been pretty quiet reporting my Manticore experiences, partly because when I notice things I want to be sure of my interpretation before posting about it. Here is something I noticed which might or might not shed light on some of the things you mention. Since USA nickels are an important target for me I've set them up with their own tone (in five tone mode). That tone covers only 25-28 on the VDI scale. Below and above that VDI window I have different tones set up. On more than one occasion I've seen only VDI's in the 25-28 region yet I hear some of the lower and/or higher VDI region tones mixed in. What I think is happening is that the VDI numbers shown only represent the strongest values. Those VDI values are only a sampling of what the detector is seeing. The target trace (which can't really be accurately read to determine the target's conductive and ferrous values) likely does show the hits outside my 25-28 VDI window, just like the audio reporting picks them up.

Welcome Stuart! Plenty of Aussies here who are likely more familiar with the area you prospect, so maybe some of them can offer a more educated welcome. With a well-equipped GPX4500, though, you likely didn't just fall off the novice detecting turnip truck, so when you get time, tell us about your exploits.

This is an excellent place to start learning about gold detectors. I don't see the Nokta Legend there (article last updated 9 months ago so at that time the Legend was still somewhat unknown in its gold prospecting abilities). Once you've absorbed that you should be better positioned to understand the responses you get directly in this thread you've begun.

Gerry sells Killer Bees. If you can't get them working right I'm sure he'd like to talk to you about it. He's one of a dying breed when it comes to detector dealers who actually know what the hell they are selling. I would take advantage of that. If it's a true incompatibility he definitely will want to know that ASAP.

I see some kind of serial number / part number. IMO that more likely makes it part of a pocket watch case. Interesting finds.

Leaving the mint, silver quarters weighed 6.25 g. Clad quarters OTOH weigh 5.67 g.

You could put a WtB in the classifieds here and see what happens.... It worked for me when I could find a particular coil for months on Ebay.