X-terra S-shaft Modded For The Equinox

[Steve Herschbach]

35 minutes ago, Tom Slick said:

I wonder if Fisher would sell just the upper and middle rod with the battery pod to replace the one you ran over. 

I ran over my Golden Mask rod for the Equinox. I don't own a F75. Trying to get some Fisher components is like pulling teeth. Just try and find the armrest cuff for the F75/T2, let alone rod assembly.

[Rivers rat]

10 minutes ago, Steve Herschbach said:

I ran over my Golden Mask rod for the Equinox. I don't own a F75. Trying to get some Fisher components is like pulling teeth. Just try and find the armrest cuff for the F75/T2, let alone rod assembly.

Remember that one????I had help from Fisher dealer in UK Joan Allen

 

 

RR

[Rick N. MI]

All you need is a worn out T2/F75. Maybe someone here has one. Would be a great project. And you could trim your coil :).

[nickelNdimed]

On 6/8/2020 at 1:50 AM, Tom Slick said:

   I changed mine to an S rod. Having been a White's dealer in the past and using White's detectors for about 20 years, I had lots of White's parts laying around so that's how i went. I used the S rod from a MXT or DFX $19.50 if you buy new from White's. White's lower rods for my Nox coils $19.50 each. The Lower rods are required because the Nox rods are a little larger in diameter than the Whit'e Rod. It takes a little work but simple to do.
The white's S rod has two spring buttons on either side of the upper end. The Nox upper rod has a single hole on the bottom. You must drill a 1/4" hole on the bottom of the White's rod to match. Remove the spring clip from the White's rod, cut off one of the buttons and reinstall so it protrudes thru the new hole you drilled. The S rod is smaller in Diameter so you need to shim it. I cut a small piece from a plastic Folgers Coffee can LID that would make 1 layer around the S rod and you need to drill a hole in the shim for the spring button to go thru. Only thing else you need to do is mount the Nox coil to a White's lower rod.
I've been using this setup about 3 times a week for over two years and it's still rock solid. I think it swings much better as the detector doesn't try to twist at the end of each swing, and I don't thing it needs to be counter balanced like the straight shaft does. Folks buy a 3 pound detector and then add a one pound weight to hang off the back, just so it swings better. Crazy IMHO. Some photos. Last photo shows Fisher Arm cuff with Sheep Skin Cuff Muff, cool in the summer, warm in the winter. 1/2" ratchet extension for attaching large socket for counter balance (I don't use). I decided to try the counter weight idea as many folks like it. I had a hard time wanting to add weight to the detector. These pictures show the 1/2" ratchet extension and a large 16 oz socket as that's what most folks need to balance it out. With the S rod, I don't think it needs the counter weight at all.

Hi Tom, does the Minelab coil fit on the Whites lower rods without modifications or shimming to prevent strain on the coil ears?  
 

I’d like to try a s bend on my 600 and like your solution and price point. Also seems more available and cheaper than Xterra parts at this time.  I’ve been wanting an extra middle and lower for my other coil anyway.

Also funny, for my counterbalance I also used a heavy impact socket.  My issue is shoulder joint pain.  The counter balance has not changed anything other than make it feel heavier and exacerbate the cuff slop issue I’m looking into as well.  

[Tom Slick]

After being a dealer for a number of years and having bought and sold hundreds of detectors, I have amassed a large assortment of detecting parts and accessories. The White's lower rod attachment point is about .250 narrower than the Minelab clevis. I just used a couple of firm rubber washers to shim the White's clevis to fit the Minelab coils. I've had my Equinox and all three coils since they first became available and have yet to break a coil ear (knocking on wood). I've always been very careful with my detectors. I don't drop them on the ground like I see so many others do and I keep them clean. Fortunately I have lived in very dry environments so my detectors don't get exposed to mud. I'm super happy with my White's/Equinox "S" rod conversion and just don't understand anyone adding weight to their detector trying to make it swing better. Let me know if there's anything else I can help with on your mod. 

[steveg]

Tom,

If some folks find that an S-shaft is easier to swing, I think that's great.  However, adding counterweight DOES make a nose-heavy machine "swing better," even though to some that seems somewhat "counter-intuitive."  

While an S-shaft might be preferred by some, that shaft design doesn't change the fact that a machine like the Equinox, which places relatively substantial weight at one end (the coil end), out at the end of a long "lever," and essentially no weight at the other end (the butt end) IS a nose-heavy unit, by definition.  That's just the physics of it.  Which exact groups of muscles you are using to overcome the nose-heaviness of the machine likely changes a bit, when using an S-shaft vs. a straight shaft, and so for some, it may be less difficult to swing a nose-heavy machine using an S-shaft, vs. a straight shaft.  But the bottom line is that if your machine is nose-heavy (and the Equinox is), then you have to fight the leverage exerted by the coil, if you are wanting to keep the coil floating above the ground.  And if the muscles you are using to fight that leverage are not sufficiently strong in order to do so without fatigue, then the machine will feel uncomfortable.  Again, the Equinox is imbalanced with EITHER shaft, that's just the physical facts based on the way the machine is designed.  And therefore, counterbalancing the shaft DOES make it more comfortable to swing.

Steve

[nickelNdimed]

11 minutes ago, steveg said:

Tom,

If some folks find that an S-shaft is easier to swing, I think that's great.  However, adding counterweight DOES make a nose-heavy machine "swing better," even though to some that seems somewhat "counter-intuitive."  

While an S-shaft might be preferred by some, that shaft design doesn't change the fact that a machine like the Equinox, which places relatively substantial weight at one end (the coil end), out at the end of a long "lever," and essentially no weight at the other end (the butt end) IS a nose-heavy unit, by definition.  That's just the physics of it.  Which exact groups of muscles you are using to overcome the nose-heaviness of the machine likely changes a bit, when using an S-shaft vs. a straight shaft, and so for some, it may be less difficult to swing a nose-heavy machine using an S-shaft, vs. a straight shaft.  But the bottom line is that if your machine is nose-heavy (and the Equinox is), then you have to fight the leverage exerted by the coil, if you are wanting to keep the coil floating above the ground.  And if the muscles you are using to fight that leverage are not sufficiently strong in order to do so without fatigue, then the machine will feel uncomfortable.  Again, the Equinox is imbalanced with EITHER shaft, that's just the physical facts based on the way the machine is designed.  And therefore, counterbalancing the shaft DOES make it more comfortable to swing.

Steve

Steve, I think it may be true for some and not others. Also seems like there are different types of discomfort reported and I suspect people also have different physical specs which could be part of the equation. Hard to tell with the amount of info available. Some don’t even report the type of pain. 

Is it wrist, elbow, shoulder, somewhere in between?  

Are you tall, short, limb and torso proportions?

Do you need counterbalance, s-shaft, shoulder harness, some combination?  

I remember using my Seahunter on the beach that weighs over 5lbs and my arm muscles just being worn out from the weight!  But no shoulder joint pain. But it went away.

With the Equinox hunting on turf, I’ve developed a lot of shoulder/arm joint pain that is lingering. It is light and easy to swing. It can be swung pretty quickly because of recovery speed. I try to walk like my shoes are tied together and try to be meticulous about coverage but it is a lot of back and forth on that joint. I did not think it was so much weight as the stopping and reversing the coil. I’ve tried to counterbalance with a socket but it has not worked for me. Now I just have  lot of cuff slop I had to also address and a heavier feeling detector every time I pick up. I’ve also tried shortening my shaft and swinging closer to my feet.

I suspect the counterbalance might help folks with wrist pain or maybe arm or forearm pain. I’ve read that the s-shafts can help with end of swing wobble. I’m not sure that is something I notice but it is possible it could reduce or change how that impacts my shoulder joint. So that is what I would like to try next in addition to a more permanent solution to my sloppy cuff

I’m 5’11”, slender/lean build.  Longer legs than torso, longish arms just to throw that out there.  I won’t get into measuring my arm proportions but my point is folks will have different mechanical advantages and disadvantages.  I need to find what will work for me so I can keep swinging and the counterbalance has not been it.  The s-bend may not do it.  I may resort to just marking a few targets at a time and resting my arm more often from that motion while digging up targets.  

 

 

 

[Tom Slick]

Steve,

 I understand what you're saying about balance, but that extra weight has to be alleviated in some way and that is the fingers. With detectors being used at basically a 45 degree angle to the ground, and gravity always trying to push the detector towards the ground. What keeps the detector from dragging on the ground is the grip (fingers) wrapped around the handgrip. A person could tighten the arm cuff strap really tight, or tape the detector to their arm, bust most folks just grab the handgrip with their fingers. As an experiment, Put 3 pounds in a bucket, pickup the bucket and see how long you can hold it. Then try it with 4 pounds. Ok, wait a day so your arm can recuperate from the 3 pound test. Might be quicker to try 30 pounds and then 40 pounds. Either way, it's your fingers that keep the coil off the ground. 

I know that everyone doesn't necessarily like "S" rods. Same can be said about straight shafts, and straight shafts with extra weight added to their detectors. 

[steveg]

nickeldNdimed --

A couple of things.  First of all, you are right that there are different types of pain experienced by some, versus others.  In addition, some users experience "fatigue" only, not really pain, and some experience no pain or fatigue at all.  If you are experiencing no fatigue or pain, then there's no reason to counterbalance.  Obviously, for that person, the muscular effort to keep the coil floating is not so great, that it "strains" the muscles.  But, if you are feeling fatigue, or pain, then it's quite likely due to the machine's imbalance.  There are few people that couldn't lift 3 pounds, and carry that 3 pounds a long distance, with little to no problem.  It is how the three pounds is DISTRIBUTED, and which muscles you are having to use, that matters.

You mentioned shortening your shaft.  That will definitely reduce nose-heaviness.  Again, that's just physics.  And yes, arm length, shaft length, height, etc. are "variables."  I consider all of those, when "fitting" a customer for counterweight.

You said counterweight did not help you, and that it just gave you a "heavier-feeling" machine.  My guess is that you were not using the right amount of weight.  If you put on some counterweight, and it's not enough to balance the shaft, then yes -- you have not solved the balance issue but instead you've just made the machine heavier, without the benefit of "balance."

With that said however, the pictures you showed do indicate that you "helped" the balance situation, in that the machine is "better balanced" in the picture where you have your weighting attached, versus the one without.  That would by definition mean you were exerting less "muscle effort" to keep the coil lifted off the ground with the counterweighted shaft, than you were with the un-weighted one.

In any case, there's no doubt that everyone is different, their physical capabilities are different, etc., but there's also no doubt that the Equinox is a nose-heavy machine, and that if you struggle with that nose-heaviness, counterbalancing will help...

If you struggle with other aspects of the machine's ergonomics, then that may be a different story.

Steve