New Garrett Ace Apex Versus The Rest

[Chase Goldman]

7 minutes ago, Cal_Cobra said:

No worries there, the EQ800 has been serving me well, and I still have the MMK, although trust be told, since getting the EQ800 dialed in, the MMK has been collecting some dust.

I look forward to the field results on the Apex, if it takes Garrett a couple of years to launch their Apex Pro, that's just fine with me.  I'm sure they'll continue to milk the ATM (AT Max, not cash machines) for a while and once sales tapper off on that, the Apex Pro will come to light.  That's good, gives them plenty of time to get it right, and by that time the EQ2/MIQ2 machines will likely be out, as well as the Nokta SMF.  All good in my book, it'll be great to have this many options.  Imagine if the Explorer series had a serious competitor all the years that it reigned supreme as the deep silver seeker it is, maybe even FTP would've came to life ?  Sure they took a stab at the Explorer market with their CZ70, but it was too little too late IMO.  Darn good machine, I know it opened doors for me, but the likes of the Explorer2 and Etrac can run circles around it for deep silver slaying in trashy parks.

Agree - I'm not wanting for the Apex or Apex Pro right now (or any machine, frankly) but would like to get my hands on the Apex at some point just to see how Garrett did with Multi F.  Then it will come down to what Garret and Minelab do for an encore after Apex and Nox/Vanquish a couple years down the road.

[Cal_Cobra]

24 minutes ago, Chase Goldman said:

Jeff and Cal also addressed the utility of multitones.  5 tones is great in some situations but I find that 50/full tone implementations are useful in providing nuanced audio target information that is simply not available with 2, 3, or 5 tones because clues such as tone ID stability and tone harmonics/distortion are usually not as prevealent in setups that use 5 or less tones.  Knowing how to use 50 tones to your advantage is a key to not having to worry about whether those "low tone coins are in most low tone rubbish", as you put it. 

Once I got tuned into 50 tones, when I went back and tried 5 tones in beach mode, it felt contrived, and it felt like you were missing that great full tone audio intel.

 It probably won't stop me from eventually trying out the Apex to assess it's Multi F capabilities especially at it's reasonable price point.

I look forward to your detailed report on the Apex.  You and I hunt similar relic sites, and I know you'll put it through the proper paces and having the ability to seriously compare it to the EQ800 will be a huge benefit to many of us ?

 

[Cal_Cobra]

2 hours ago, Dances With Doves said:

In the turf the nox is way more accurate then xterra on deep coins.It(  Xterra)     up averages them when they get deep.In some places it' s no big deal because you     dig all anyway   because you are going for rings and coins.In some places you are digging to many pulltabs.The xterra is a  great turf gold machine and tot lot machine with 18kz. I also have done good for silver coins  with 10" 7kz coil.Still not as good as nox to me. The xterra is a machine that  does many things well  do to coil change system.I  never tried a 3kz. dd  coil on this machine.I think I will buy a 7  " 3kz dd. coil called Lion from Mars to see what it could do  since it is cheap  compared to digger coil from coiltech.

I've actually found that the EQ800 also up-averages deep coins, and I actually LIKE that.  Once I get a semi-repeatable, high TID with that tinkly silver sound, I know the odds are that it'll be a deep silver coin.

[Steve Herschbach]

12 minutes ago, Cal_Cobra said:

I've actually found that the EQ800 also up-averages deep coins, and I actually LIKE that.  Once I get a semi-repeatable, high TID with that tinkly silver sound, I know the odds are that it'll be a deep silver coin.

True that, but any multifrequency unit is far less prone to up averaging than a single frequency detector. In my ground a deep rolled up beavertail reads as a dime on every single frequency detector I have tested. That is a big jump, and quite annoying. Not an issue I encounter with multi.

[Cal_Cobra]

1 hour ago, Steve Herschbach said:

True that, but any multifrequency unit is far less prone to up averaging than a single frequency detector. In my ground a deep rolled up beavertail reads as a dime on every single frequency detector I have tested. That is a big jump, and quite annoying. Not an issue I encounter with multi.

I had that exact issue with my F75, not that the F75 was a terrible machine by any means, I made a ton of great finds with it, but it wasn't stellar in regards to TID IMHO.

 

Interestingly I've had deep silver dimes up-average between 28-32, but that modulated deep whisper audio is unmistakable.  Love it, especially when you PP it and you get no audio, you know it's going to be deep.

 

[Jeff McClendon]

So, I hope that the Apex will be able to do what I will describe here. Just got back from a coin hunt in very dry mineralized turf and dirt with the Equinox 600, Park 2 50 tones. All older coins were 6 to 8" deep. No silver.....boo hoo. Every clad dime  was 24 to 27,  pre-1982 and 1950s wheat pennies were 26 to 30 and clad quarters were 28 to 31. The real amazing things were the 6 to 8" 1950s to 1970s US nickels that were all rock solid 12/13 along with all of the beaver tail pull tabs that were 14 to 18 depending on how complete they were and if they were folded up or not. 

This has been my experience since day one with the Equinox 600 and 800. Once I learned these tendencies modern US coin hunting became a cinch. The only wild card are the condition of post 1982 zinc pennies, Today, the shallow ones were  19,20,21. The deeper more corroded ones were 18 to 30 but mostly 19 to 21. I have found a similar situation in my dirt on zinc pennies so far with the Vanquish and the Whites DFX in multi best data Coin and Jewelry.

As most of you know, any single frequency VLF I own or have owned will severely up average low to mid conductors into the very high conductor range past 3 to 4".

I look forward to seeing how the Apex handles the dirt around here.

Jeff

[Nuke em]

My experience with the Terra 705 over a 8 year period from 2011 to 2018 got me £9850 in coinage and 14 Gold rings and around 100 Silver rings , on top of the finds by the ET and Explorer's I have used in that time . The Terra on UK coinage was very accurate especially in airy sand and shingle . I cannot say the same for the Nox where it comes to numbers . The numbers are shared with so much trash that on my beaches it slows you down. 

The Nox has found me 7 Gold and around 70 Silver rings over the time I have used it since release. But the finds I found were not outside the scope of the ET or even the Terra in the right places (dry or wet) . 

And as I have said about headphones , all Minelab machines should be given in the box high toned headphones that match the tones of the machines. Many people say the Nox isn't deep and that the ET isn't too. I say set up right and with the best headphones that sound off higher give better depth . 

I have found minute pieces of trash on the beaches with the ET and Explorer's and with my ET at the time I found a Celtic Quarter Stater (10mm diameter less than 2 gram) . The ET finds low conductors just fine. And I found a Roman Minim coin which was 3 mm in diameter at 5 or 6 inches back in 2006 (now that's small) ! with an Explorer 11 or SE .

But in the end its all to do with the headphones , if you hear the targets you will find them , if the targets are quiet because of low bass headphones you are likely to miss them . Especially if in trash of similar types. 

I can hear a pull tab and a 20p coin in the same place with my ET and know the 20p is there . I have had £1 coins in trash and I have heard them in low tone rubbish . I could never do that with Koss / Nox and other Bass toned headphones and I bet not many others could neither.

In fact my at the time Explorer SE found all 4 of my low tone cut Quarter hammered Silver Henry 111 / Edward 1 Pennies . They are very low toned and around 7 mm in size. Cut quarters are Silver Penny coins of the Medieval times that have been cut into 4 quarters . They are then called Farthings . They produced Half Pennies and proper Farthings later in the early Edward years I think. I have a few of the Halfpennies and 2 cut Half Pennies of Henry 111 and King Steven .

If the Apex is based on the FBS I wont be complaining , and as it says its Multi Flex . My guess is that it is based on the V. Flex and has the FBS too . As all those patents are now past there dates I reckon.

As for depth of Garrett machines , I wont complain about that either , here in the UK on digs Ace users are renowned for taking home very decent finds of all types . Most decent targets in the ground are usually in the first 8 inches and most reasonable machines will do that . 

Garrett machines are better than many think. And now they are venturing into Multi Frequency .

[Steve Herschbach]

 Multi Flex is just a marketing name made up in a meeting. It does not mean it derived from anything prior. People just make this stuff up. I was in on the brainstorming that lead to Multi-IQ. One of my contributions.... Bar-B-Q...cooks the competition! 

V-Flex was all about sending the signal from the coil to control box in digital instead of analog form. It has nothing to do with the processing other than the conversion from analog to digital is done at the coil instead of in the control box. The coil and control box talk to each other.

[GB_Amateur]

2 hours ago, Jeff McClendon said:

The real amazing things were the 6 to 8" 1950s to 1970s US nickels that were all rock solid 12/13 along with all of the beaver tail pull tabs that were 14 to 18 depending on how complete they were and if they were folded up or not.

Hope we're not going off-topic....  I've been detecting exclusively in Park 1 and in 69 hours this year of hunting the same park I've dug almost 400 pulltabs (~190 beavertails alone, ~110 smaller ring+beavertails).  My dig requirement is majority of TIDs in 12-13 and none lower than 11, none higher than 14.  But very few of these hit 14 and a minority show 11's.  Yes, I've found ~70 nickels with these selection criteria, but I'm still digging a majority of pulltabs.

I guess I need to try Park 2.  I just assumed (we all know what that means...) I was avoiding the tiny targets as the Equinox user manual suggests.

If I were digging 14-18 I'd easily have a thousand more pulltabs, but those are either the larger R&B combos or just the broken off larger rings, plus of course the square tabs.  (I do dig the smaller ring-only tabs only which hit 13 consistently, particularly if they are bent.)

Any thoughts, Jeff and others?