Full Tones And Negative Disc -6.4

[raziel900]

I'll start by saying that I've never used a Deus 1. I own the Deus 2 since it came out on the market, before the updates I heard a lot of complaints about the full tones not working like on the Deus 1 etc.... I never tried them until they updated by adding offset for full tones...  Reading here and there I got the idea that the full tones on the Deus would have been the trump card when it comes to separation in environments polluted by iron and more,offering the richest sound identification that XP has implemented.I've never even used negative discrimination -6.4 I've never understood the meaning of it... So I ask you if full tones are actually the best choice when hunting in iron-infested sites and if combining full tones with negative discrimination in these environments where unmasking targets is the priority, can really raise the "performance" of Deus 2.I have very mild soils and the only annoying mineralization in some fields is the massive presence of ancient bricks, I don't consider myself an expert in XP detectors but after more than 500 hours of use I didn't understand when and why to use full tones and negative discrimination

[Chase Goldman]

First of all, going full negative disc and/or full tones does not increase the performance (depth, responsiveness, TID accuracy) of the D2, per se.  Some people prefer those settings because it can enhance audio for some targets (see my next paragraph) and/or it gives you a more audible cue when swinging over low, medium, or high conductors without having to rely on displayed TID.

Going full negative disc merely means you are going to pick up ground targets/feedback and perhaps some brick or ceramics.   That's fine if you're specifically looking for concentrations of such materials as telltale indications of a former structure or former human presence, but mostly you are just going to hear a lot of ground feedback.  If you increase discrimination to above 0 (I like to keep mine around 7 to 10) you can discriminate most iron but can still hear it via the iron volume setting.  (Iron concentrations are a more reliable telltale of newer former wooden structures that used nails or former human presence in general by the iron tools and implements left in the ground).  Applying discrimination as noted in the recently linked XP video on identifying ferrous does not impact performance, so there are really very few reasons not to use it.  There are other potentially less tangible benefits to using discrimination related to horseshoe indicator stability and TID down averaging but those "benefits" are subject to debate because that was the case with the Deus 1 but XP has not been clear in this regard for Deus 2.

Related to Full Tones and setting Disc, XP fixed a Deus 1 and pre-D2 version 1.0 flaw that didn't allow Iron Volume to work with Full Tones and applied Discrimination above 0.  That's been fixed now with v1.0 and later and you can get iron volume in Full Tones below the Disc breakpoint and you can set up tone pitch separation between the lowest pitched tone in Full tones and Iron Volume pitch by adjusting the "Offset" expert setting in the Disc expert submenu.

Regarding Full Tones - Like I said previously, it's a matter of ear preference.  It gives a more fluid audio that is correlated directly to target ID (rather than target strength, like pitch or the discrete 2,3,4,5 multitones which are more stable but less nuanced) which also audibly alerts you to targets with variable TIDs or multiple targets of different IDs under the coil mimicking visual ID variations.

If you're trying to simply distinguish ferrous from non-ferrousIand and not prospecting, I highly recommend either using pitch tones with some Disc and Iron volume applied in General, Sensitive, Sensitive FT (Sensitive FT has a unique and different (more aggressive) silencer Filter compared to the other modes, including Sensitive and Fast.  You can change FT to pitch tones or multi-tones in the Sens FT program despite its name), or Deep HC or Relic with some IAR (Relic/Goldfield's different take on Disc - I recommend setting it at 3 or 5).  If using Relic, be sure to notch out 00 as that is usually just ground feedback but it manifests as a non ferrous tone.  Annoying but 00 fixes that right up.

I suggest trying FT or Pitch to see which works better for you. If you prefer to simply be alerted to faint non-ferrous in the presence of ferrous, I like pitch with a high Audio Response setting, though you do have to rely on TID for a dig decision if you are "visually" discriminating out low conductive non-ferrous or only have a specific target ID range of interest and/or you can also "interrogate" the target with a FT program variant to help you decide.  I keep a FT General custom program in an adjacent program slot to my custom Relic program so I can quickly alternate between them on the fly or when interrogating a target.  Alternatively, you can use FT if you want to listen for target ID stability that can tell you if you may have irregular target shape or multiple materials (perhaps junk) or simply want to detect  with less reliance on glancing at visual TID.  Both Pitch and FT give you A LOT of nuanced audio target information - a lot more than you can glean just from visual TID with Multi-tones.

HTH

[raziel900]

Thank you for your detailed reply, Believing that using "low" discrimination would bring benefits on unmasking performance, I often use discrimination around 5-6 and when I'm on an iron-infested "field" using pitch tone you can't make out all the targets because some of that iron sounds like a good target forcing you to look at the display every second,  That said, and following your words, Deus 2 seems easier than I think. I just need to bring the discrimination to the top 8-9-10 and I'm sure that most of the iron is "discriminated" making the search more pleasant and without affecting the unmasking performance... So I assume that setting a discrimination below 10 is only for those who want to dig iron! or for those who want to make sure of the presence of bricks or ceramics

 

ps:Listening to what XP tells us, program number 3 has a more aggressive silencer even at level 0 therefore less suitable for unmasking targets, because having a low silencer level offers excellent possibilities of unmasking

[Chase Goldman]

4 hours ago, raziel900 said:

ps:Listening to what XP tells us, program number 3 has a more aggressive silencer even at level 0 therefore less suitable for unmasking targets, because having a low silencer level offers excellent possibilities of unmasking

Correct - that's what I was referring to in my discussion of Sens FT, you said it more clearly.

I also want to mention that how you set up your other audio parameters is key and needs to be customized for your hearing and comfort.

I like PCM audio because though it is somewhat harsh to those not used to it, I like the tonal nuances it conveys.  But Hi-Square audio is a suitable compromise that combines a lot of the tonal nuance of PCM with the more musical sounding tones of Square.

The audio filter can also being out more tonal nuance at high settings, enhancing the tonal distortions associated with overloaded target signals like aluminum can tops or the sonic harmonics of jagged targets like can slaw.

Use the Equalizer to compensate and boost frequencies that are attenuated due to hearing loss or fidelity shortcomings in your headphones/earbuds/speakers.

Finally, adjusting Audio Response is key depending on your hunting style or target objectives.  Adjust it to lower numbers if you want to be consciously aware of deeper fainter targets (if you are ignoring shallow recent drops for example) or set it higher if you want to be assured of hearing targets that are on the edge of detection.

[raziel900]

33 minutes ago, Chase Goldman said:

 

I also want to mention that how you set up your other audio parameters is key and needs to be customized for your hearing and comfort.

 

Chase Goldman you told a sacred truth, in the end it's all about hearing and comfort... Less headaches about parameters and give more importance to what sounds best to each of us....thank you 🙂

[raziel900]

Does it make sense to "decrease" tone breaks like in my photo when you're in full tones? I notice that you can't completely eliminate the tone brakes and that they cluster at the bottom. What does it mean?

[palzynski]

4 hours ago, raziel900 said:

I'll start by saying that I've never used a Deus 1. I own the Deus 2 since it came out on the market, before the updates I heard a lot of complaints about the full tones not working like on the Deus 1 etc.... I never tried them until they updated by adding offset for full tones...  Reading here and there I got the idea that the full tones on the Deus would have been the trump card when it comes to separation in environments polluted by iron and more,offering the richest sound identification that XP has implemented.I've never even used negative discrimination -6.4 I've never understood the meaning of it... So I ask you if full tones are actually the best choice when hunting in iron-infested sites and if combining full tones with negative discrimination in these environments where unmasking targets is the priority, can really raise the "performance" of Deus 2.I have very mild soils and the only annoying mineralization in some fields is the massive presence of ancient bricks, I don't consider myself an expert in XP detectors but after more than 500 hours of use I didn't understand when and why to use full tones and negative discrimination

Personnaly I use SENSITIVE, 5 tones , HSQ audio . I dont use full tones because it introduces a kind of pitch audio different from the "straight" 5 tones audio and I dont like the pitch audio.

Of course the audio is a very personal choice , for example some prefer PWM where others prefer SQ or HSQ etc ...

5 tones works very well for me in France where we have iron infested areas almost everywhere ...  I dont modify the other  parameters ( discri , negative discri etc .. ) because I am happy with the SENSITIVE factory settings and I like simple things .. And it is very easy for me to reprogram my D2 if I loose my customization for any reason ..

[Chase Goldman]

3 hours ago, raziel900 said:

Does it make sense to "decrease" tone breaks like in my photo when you're in full tones? I notice that you can't completely eliminate the tone brakes and that they cluster at the bottom. What does it mean?

If your lowest tone break is at 0.0 it means you have disc at 0.  Adjusting tone breaks on this menu just enables you to select different volumes for up to four different portions of the ID scale (the ferrous region below the discrimination tone break is controlled by the iron volume setting). It doesn't change the pitch or actual tone breaks per se as you are in full tones.  I would not have changed it from the 4 default non-ferrous tone breaks unless you want to emphasize or deemphasize the volume of specific ID regions.  Frankly, I am not seeing any reason to set up the FT breaks the way you have done it here, it doesn't appear to serve any useful purpose.

[Skull diver]

3 hours ago, raziel900 said:

I notice that you can't completely eliminate the tone brakes and that they cluster at the bottom. What does it mean?

If I may, I recommend that you set tone breaks carefully when using full tones.

Expanding or decreasing the ID portion for each tone also changes the audio behavior of the melody, and I am certain of this after changing the basic parameters.

I hope I explained correctly, but specifically I created divisions of about 15 points between each signal and got 5 portions by focusing on the middle zone.

There, that makes the signal extension less understandable than when I used full tones the first time.

The offset may help in giving more footprint than iron in direct proportion as the number goes up.

[raziel900]

In the picture I tried to "eliminate" the tone breaks to have a harmonic scale without breaks, more linear and clean tones but if those breaks refer only to the volume then nothing changes