600 Vs. 800 Differences - More Than Just A Gold Prospecting Mode

[Steve Herschbach]

Both have the same Beach Mode, but the fact is that A. Beach Mode works only in multifrequency and B. Nobody has any idea how Minelab mixes and matches different frequencies in different modes other than that Beach Mode multifrequency is not the same as Park Mode multifrequency for instance. So while the Beach Mode is identical on the Equinox 600 and Equinox 800, until Minelab clears all this up it is all speculation as to what Beach Mode is doing different than say, Field Mode.

Put another way, Field Mode multifrequency will not work in saltwater but Beach Mode multifrequency will. What we are seeing is a true digital program based detector where different modes are for all intents and purposes different metal detectors.

[Chase Goldman]

20 minutes ago, Cabo Chris said:

What?  Both have the same beach mode.  

Yep. Beach mode uses MultiIQ only and as been stated earlier in the thread, both the 600 and 800 use all 5 frequencies in MultiIQ including 20 and 40 khz, even though the 600 can't select them in individual frequency mode.

[Mark Gillespie]

9 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

There is a very important thought process at work here. Nobody, but nobody, not me, not the other testers, not even Minelab, knows exactly just what the Equinox is capable of and what uses people will find for the various modes and frequencies. To a large degree there is a bit of a "throw in the kitchen sink" thing at work here. Then turn it loose in the wild and see what everyone does with it. Collect feedback and data, and incorporate into later models down the road.

Why include single frequencies? Good question. The genuine answer - why not? They can do it so they did. But it will mostly just be a way to show people how great Multi-IQ is and how Minelab's statements regarding single frequency really do have a basis in reality. So far for me the single frequency modes are mostly just a fallback position for extreme EMI mitigation.

But that is not to say that tens of thousands of users worldwide experimenting with all these modes and frequency options will not discover uses or oddball applications that nobody anticipated. I never knew I would end up using my cell phone more as a GPS than as a phone until I got it and used it. Equinox is the same thing. It really is new, and figuring out just exactly what it does in the real world and how best to apply it for different uses is going to be a huge part of the fun here once the machines hit the street.

My thoughts exactly.  I was one of the original testers of the Eurotek Pro and can say I had a blast experimenting/testing to see what I could find wrong and what functions performed according to what the engineers wanted.  It might be a low cost machine, but performs extremely well in heavy iron sites.  To me, the fun of learning a new machine is what matters.  Then comes the surprise find I didn't see coming.

Life is short and you won't go around but once.  Have fun....

[Mark Gillespie]

22 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

Both have the same Beach Mode, but the fact is that A. Beach Mode works only in multifrequency and B. Nobody has any idea how Minelab mixes and matches different frequencies in different modes other than that Beach Mode multifrequency is not the same as Park Mode multifrequency for instance. So while the Beach Mode is identical on the Equinox 600 and Equinox 800, until Minelab clears all this up it is all speculation as to what Beach Mode is doing different than say, Field Mode.

Put another way, Field Mode multifrequency will not work in saltwater but Beach Mode multifrequency will. What we are seeing is a true digital program based detector where different modes are for all intents and purposes different metal detectors.

You know Steve I have wondered the same thing about the V3i and the Deus and the different programs.  Even though each program can be modified, I always wondered if hidden in the back ground were some sort of settings/internal adjustments I didn't know about.  Being a programmer from the late 90's I can see a line or two of code performing special functions for a special feature.  That is the internal secrets we may never be aware of.  But that's okay, if it works great.

 

 

[Chase Goldman]

25 minutes ago, Mark Gillespie said:

You know Steve I have wondered the same thing about the V3i and the Deus and the different programs.  Even though each program can be modified, I always wondered if hidden in the back ground were some sort of settings/internal adjustments I didn't know about.  Being a programmer from the late 90's I can see a line or two of code performing special functions for a special feature.  That is the internal secrets we may never be aware of.  But that's okay, if it works great.

 

 

While I don't have access to the Deus code and can't speak for the V3i, I have wondered this myself.  In general, as far as I can tell, the "preset programs"  on the Deus are just various different combinations "user adjustable constants" that get fed into basically the same signal processing algorithm while you are merely changing filter breakpoints (e.g., discrimination, silencer), responsivity (reactivity), operating frequency, sensitivity, tones, notch, etc.  In version 4, XP threw a bit of a curveball, where they addied a signal processing filter from a previous software version into the base program for one of the preset programs.  If you used that program as your base program for another "custom" program you would be using a different filter than if you set up your custom program from any of the other presets.  This is the only example I know of where there was variation in the way the preset programs actually behaved at the core program level.  There is another example for the Deus called Gold Field (All Metal) but the it is pretty clear that is a completely different signal processing core program than the rest of the normal "Discrimination" type preset programs.   I am already getting the idea that for the Equinox,  each of the preset program Modes are truly completely different core programs in how they implement MultiIQ as well as how they implement other features such as discrimination and perhaps even ground balancing.  Hard to tell with just a user guide and a bunch of You Tube videos and blogs as reference, but it is pretty clear this is the case and is basically what Steve has been telling us all along.  Coming from the Deus, I perhaps a little concerned that you can only save two custom variants of each detecting mode.  Perhaps I need to shed the Deus paradigm and recognize this is probably ok, especially since the Minelab UI on the Equinox appears to make it easy to change certain parameters on the fly.

[Joel]

Steve,

The more I read, the more insight & knowledge I gain. I can not tell you how much I appreciate your dedication to helping others understand the complexity of this new technology.  Keep up the great job!

[mn90403]

Joel,

Complexity?  We're told in other threads we won't need any training.

I play three cushion billiards with only 3 balls (adjustments) and no pockets.  It is one of the most difficult games ever devised.  I know I need training to get better at billiards.  Close does not count!!

You know the saying ... close is only good in horseshoes and hand grenades ... is close good in metal detecting also?

Mitchel

[Steve Herschbach]

15 hours ago, mn90403 said:

Complexity?  We're told in other threads we won't need any training.

I never said people don’t need training - just that I am not planning on doing any personally outside this forum. Whatever can’t be gleaned from the forum will hopefully be provided or offered as a service at the dealer level. If Minelab were to ever sponsor training sessions I might consider getting involved, but that would be about it as far as I am concerned.

Welcome to the forum Joel!

[Chase Goldman]

Also, with respect to Joel’s post, there is a big difference between complex technology employed in a metal detector (e.g., MultiIQ) and the detector’s user interface which can greatly simply how the complex technology is applied by the user.  Strictly speaking, if the user interface remains simple and/or straight forward, very little training would be required despite the complexity of the underlying technology.  From what I can tell, Minelab has taken great pains to keep that interface simple as compared to say the CTX (thankfully).  On the other hand, understanding how the underlying technology works, can sometimes enable the end user (detectorist) to tweak parameters in even a limited/simple interface to wring additional performance out of the machine.  Whether Minelab or a 3rd party provides training on this would depend on whether Minelab or a 3rd Party anticipates the possibility of this “graduate degree” level tweaking a la Andy Sabisch’s Bootcamps, for example.