New Minelab Manticore

[rled2005]

4 hours ago, phrunt said:

I think you'd be surprised how useful Target Trace is, it's fantastic on the CTX and that's a decade old detector now so I can only hope they've improved it even further.  In my soils here Multi-IQ was brilliant for ID stability and depth and with them hinting the Manticore has some depth advantages and more stable ID's than the Nox I'm expecting really good things with it's version of Target Trace. 

I like just about everything about the Manticore, with the only concern I have being the battery life, especially if I go prospecting with it, it just won't last the full day.  I might be able to tweak it up a bit to last longer, disable the back light and so on to give it a bit more juice, perhaps plug it into a USB power bank while I stop for lunch.   Higher frequencies like used prospecting tend to use less battery power too.

They're hinting at better EMI immunity too, although I've seen no evidence of that yet, in all the videos I've seen it's behaved similar to how the Nox would in that situation I think, but time will tell. 

If you are capable of using your Nox with 50 tones, you already have target trace, your brain just has to decipher it and some people are capable of doing that, for me I can't go past 5 tones so I benefit greatly from the visuals target trace provides. 🙂

I thought the Nox was near the perfect machine with the build quality being it's only downfall.  It got to the point with mine the only ML parts were the pod and the coil, and not always even the coil so I avoided much of the problems.  That and I just wasn't brave enough to use it in water much.    The Manticore designers took notice of the Nox faults, aren't shy of admitting them in the Manticore videos and have said it won't have those problems, so for me, it might be my perfect VLF.

50 tones are a bit too much for me. It’s like a hot rod rumbling as it idles, then when you get a target, it’s like the hot rod engine revs up. For me, it’s distracting. I like to silent search until I get a target.

[Chase Goldman]

11 minutes ago, rled2005 said:

50 tones are a bit too much for me. It’s like a hot rod rumbling as it idles, then when you get a target, it’s like the hot rod engine revs up. For me, it’s distracting. I like to silent search until I get a target.

Theoretically, if you are discriminating ferrous and have the machine properly ground balanced, then even in 50 tones it will still be silent until you get a target.

[steveg]

1 hour ago, Chase Goldman said:

Exactly.  I would also go further and say that it IS not related to the shape of the target at all but solely related to the variation (i.e., uncertainty) in the M-core's ability to discern a precise ID for the target.  It just so happens that large rusty objects are very likely to exhibit this behavior.

Chase --

We largely agree.  I say "indirectly," because, one thing of course that we all "listen for," when coin or ring hunting, and trying to discern "good targets" from "bad," is a "round" sound -- i.e. little variation in VDI, and thus tone.  And that same "round sound," which is related to little variation in VDI, translates to a "round" target trace.  So, there IS, I think, and "indirect" relationship, from the same perspective as when we are listening to a target and we say "it sounds round."  If it "sounds round," it will also "plot round" on the 2D screen.

That's all I am saying.  But -- yes -- otherwise, we totally agree.  It is an "indirect" relationship, at best.

Steve

[rled2005]

Just now, Chase Goldman said:

Theoretically, if you are discriminating ferrous and have the machine properly ground balanced, then even in 50 tones it will still be silent until you get a target.

Where I live the soil is pretty hot and emi is bad. I bough a Simplex+ a couple years ago and had to get rid of it, as it couldn’t handle the soil and emi here. (Same with the MX Sport).

[Chase Goldman]

8 minutes ago, rled2005 said:

Where I live the soil is pretty hot and emi is bad. I bough a Simplex+ a couple years ago and had to get rid of it, as it couldn’t handle the soil and emi here. (Same with the MX Sport).

I presume your Equinox handles those conditions better but if it is "silent search" in multi-tones it should also be silent search in 50-tones.  However, if your Equinox still has noise issues under those conditions, then I can understand that having 2 or 5-tone chatter might be less audibly fatiguing than 50-tone chatter, so on that basis I understand what you are saying.

I too often detect in high emi/high mineralized conditons.  And, as a result, I have actually moved away from tone ID and now prefer the Pitch audio (with separate ferrous tones for targets below the ferrous discrimination breakpoint) provided by my Deus 2.  That basically turns my machine into a ferrous/non-ferrous dig machine but with some additional target information provided by the pitch audio vice a discrete tone (the downside is that I rely more heavily on visual target ID).  My understanding is that M-core will have a similar Pitch audio option for all modes (currently Nox only has pitch like audio in Gold mode).  Looking forward to that feature.  Combined with target trace to visually show ferrous targets and silent ferrous discrimination, it might actually surpass D2 in functionality.

[rled2005]

4 minutes ago, Chase Goldman said:

I presume your Equinox handles those conditions better but if it is "silent search" in multi-tones it should also be silent search in 50-tones.  However, if your Equinox still has noise issues under those conditions, then I can understand that having 2 or 5-tone chatter might be less audibly fatiguing than 50-tone chatter, so on that basis I understand what you are saying.

I too often detect in high emi/high mineralized conditons.  And, as a result, I have actually moved away from tone ID and now prefer the Pitch audio (with separate ferrous tones for targets below the ferrous discrimination breakpoint) provided by my Deus 2.  That basically turns my machine into a ferrous/non-ferrous dig machine but with some additional target information provided by the pitch audio vice a discrete tone (the downside is that I rely more heavily on visual target ID).  My understanding is that M-core will have a similar Pitch audio option for all modes (currently Nox only has pitch like audio in Gold mode).  Looking forward to that feature.  Combined with target trace to visually show ferrous targets and silent ferrous discrimination, it might actually surpass D2 in functionality.

Equinox does great here. I moved most modes to 5 tones and lower volume on what I feel is irritating.

[Chase Goldman]

37 minutes ago, steveg said:

Chase --

We largely agree.  I say "indirectly," because, one thing of course that we all "listen for," when coin or ring hunting, and trying to discern "good targets" from "bad," is a "round" sound -- i.e. little variation in VDI, and thus tone.  And that same "round sound," which is related to little variation in VDI, translates to a "round" target trace.  So, there IS, I think, and "indirect" relationship, from the same perspective as when we are listening to a target and we say "it sounds round."  If it "sounds round," it will also "plot round" on the 2D screen.

That's all I am saying.  But -- yes -- otherwise, we totally agree.  It is an "indirect" relationship, at best.

Steve

Yep.  I agree regarding "sounds round". 

But to that point, as long the target ID is stable, then you won't even get that indirect "size" differential indication between a coin and a larger diameter object like a non-ferrous mason jar lid, for example.  Not trying to be argumentative (we both are basically agreeing with each other) but I am just trying to illustrate to others that this whole hype regarding target trace directly showing the relative target size is likely a fallacy.  I think we both agree the target trace blob size is really revealing target id variability/uncertainty.

Regardless of whether target trace gives you direct or indirect target footprint information, to determine relative target "size" I often lift the coil to get see how soon the audio signal trails off or trace the target footprint using the built-in non-motion pinpointer feature - those can often give you a good relative footprint check (or at least tell you that you are not swinging over a coin sized object) for relatively shallow targets.

[PSPR]

56 minutes ago, Carolina said:

Again JMHO. MY $1500 fairly new machine is killin it so no Montycure in my future. 

I think most here with a new D2 would probably do the same.  You can't just go around dropping $1600 every time a new detector comes on the market.  If I had bought a D2 I wouldn't be in the market for a Manticore right now either.  But I do think giving silly names to detectors you have no intention of buying is a bit childish.  Should we call the Deus II the Dump2?  LOL  (Just messing with ya)

[steveg]

10 minutes ago, Chase Goldman said:

Yep.  I agree regarding "sounds round". 

But to that point, as long the target ID is stable, then you won't even get that indirect "size" differential indication between a coin and a larger diameter object like a non-ferrous mason jar lid, for example.  Not trying to be argumentative (we both are basically agreeing with each other) but I am just trying to illustrate to others that this whole hype regarding target trace directly showing the relative target size is likely a fallacy.  I think we both agree the target trace blob size is really revealing target id variability/uncertainty.

Regardless of whether target trace gives you direct or indirect target footprint information, to determine relative target "size" I often lift the coil to get see how soon the audio signal trails off or trace the target footprint using the built-in non-motion pinpointer feature - those can often give you a good relative footprint check (or at least tell you that you are not swinging over a coin sized object) for relatively shallow targets.

Chase --

Yep, agreed.  I highly, highly doubt there will be any way to differentiate a LARGE item with tight VDI, from a small item with an equally tight VDI, using the 2-D screen.  Because, as you said, all the trace is showing you, in reality, is a measure of VDI "spread" or "deviation."  

So yes, we'll still have to use whatever methods we currently do (lifting the coil, as you mention, which I also do all the time), or using pinpoint (which I also do all the time) to determine the size of the target's footprint.  

Very true.  We agree!  🙂

Steve

[steveg]

14 minutes ago, PSPR said:

But I do think giving silly names to detectors you have no intention of buying is a bit childish.  Should we call the Deus II the Dump2?  LOL  (Just messing with ya)

PSPR -- don't take too much offense, LOL!  I am pretty sure there's no offense intended.  Alot of people don't like the "Manticore" name that Minelab came up with, so there was some "creativity," here on the forum, early on, kind of poking fun at what some see as a poor job of naming the machine.  Thus, bringing some levity to the situation, folks have come up with some equally poor names for the unit.  And these attempts at humor come both from those who ARE interested in the machine, and those who may not be.  That "trend" has sort of caught on, here, as a sort of "unique" thing on this specific forum.  Dreaming up a new, funny name is just an attempt at humor.  No offense intended; it's not even a poke at the machine itself, just a poke at what some perceive to be a poor choice, by Minelab's marketing department, for a name.

Steve