New Minelab Manticore

[PSPR]

1 minute ago, rled2005 said:

Good tip.

This video shows iron and a coin waved in front of the coil. The iron is discriminated, and the coin is not. Even though the iron is rejected it still shows both on the screen, which is pretty cool.

Yup!  I'm excited for the Manticore to ship.  It's going to be awesome. 

[rled2005]

Just now, PSPR said:

Yup!  I'm excited for the Manticore to ship.  It's going to be awesome. 

In the video the rep kind of side-stepped the waterproof leakage issue. She just said it is more rugged. So, that would indicate that the equinox was not rugged enough. If you look at a video from gigmaster on YouTube, he shows around the charging port as a weak area that leaks. So, ruggedness may fix the issue?

 

[PSPR]

11 minutes ago, rled2005 said:

In the video the rep kind of side-stepped the waterproof leakage issue. She just said it is more rugged. So, that would indicate that the equinox was not rugged enough. If you look at a video from gigmaster on YouTube, he shows around the charging port as a weak area that leaks. So, ruggedness may fix the issue?

Yeah, she was asked specifically about leaking around the charging port and she sidesteps answering that directly.  I hope it was redesigned as well but maybe not.  I'm not going to submerse mine in water beyond the coil until I see what happens to some others.  Maybe I won't be going in water beyond wading anyway.

I was at a beach in murky water up to my chest with a CTX3030 shortly after it came out.  I couldn't see where the coil was so I would scoop and nothing.  Check again and it was still there.  Scoop again and nothing.  Check again and scoop and now it moved.  This went on for about 25 minutes until I gave up chasing what ever it was.  That was my last water hunt up to my chest.  LOL

After that summer I sold the CTX and gave up metal detecting.  I couldn't find anything with it.  A couple friends had Garrett At's and they would detect circles around me.  I don't remember there being a graph on the CTX but I'm sure there was.  I just didn't spend enough time with it to learn it and I had to keep switching arms with it because of the weight.  It was just a frustrating summer detecting for me.

[steveg]

4 hours ago, Geordiedan said:

Not sure if this info has been shared yet, but taken from a post I've read elsewhere:

"2D ID Mapping
The CTX3030 from Minelab, is a highly-regarded coin and treasure detector, maintaining its status as a high-performance metal detector for 10-years now. And one of the features that made this machine so popular is its visual XY, 2D presentation of targets. The FeCo system, or Ferrous and Conductivity to the uninitiated visually plotted the two different attributes on display, allowing the detectorists to analyse and decide on what a target could be due to the plotting position of a target. Very cool! However, Minelab have taken this system and made it even more sophisticated. The Manticore has a new 2D mapping system which has a horizontal line running through its centre. Targets which are plotted along this central line are non ferrous and the further they stray from it above or below mean they contain a higher iron content. That covers the targets position along the y axis, and this leaves the left to right, or x position which then covers conductivity, with low conductors on the left and high conductors on the right.

But here’s where it reaches the next level, the shape of the indicator on the map also related to the target. A solid, concise object, like a coin will most likely be represented as a nice, clean dot on the screen, whereas a more erratic object will be represented as a more irregular shape. For example; a silver coin would show up along the centre line, as a tight dot, and towards the right side of the screen (due to its high conductivity), whereas a small iron nail would show up far from the centre line, as an irregular shape, and further towards the left of the screen (due to its lower conductivity). That’s a hell of a lot of information about a target before you even dig it. We will say though, it’s not going to be perfect every time, obviously environmental factors and target position will play a role in determining how precise signals are displayed."

 

Target Separation
Here’s something we have to tell you, as it blew our mind. Ensure you’ve read the above about 2D ID mapping to fully understand this bit.

Craig Allison met Mark Lawrie, The Chief Engineer at Minelab and this demonstrated how good the Manticore is at target separation. Mark first showed us how the Manticore would communicate a hammered coin. He waived it left to right above the coil, and sure enough as described previously we saw a nice, tight dot, on the centre line of the Manticore display. What was really impressive however was when Mark added a second target into the mix. On the second demonstration Mark waived the hammered coin again, but also a large piece of lead with his other hand, both passing from left to right over the coil. We once again saw the hammered coin’s dot in the same place, but now saw a larger, messy splodge in the far-left corner of the screen. This easily illustrated that two targets were present, and that the Manticore is easily able to separate targets and reduce masking. This is a real game changer in terms of knowing when to dig, particularly in trashy sites like Roman settlements where lots of iron may be present and would therefore sometimes cause detectorists to doubt signals and decide not to dig.

 

The paragraph above, that I put in bolded, italicized, enlarged, red text, is -- in my opinion, marketing mumbo-jumbo.  While most of it is largely "true," you really have to read it carefully, as the truth is "in there," but "obfuscated."  The one thing that I believe is NOT true -- and it's why I say it's marketing nonsense, is the part that said, essentially, "while the CTX could plot targets, the Manticore 'takes it to the next level,' by giving the target SHAPE."  The implication there is that the Manticore is doing something that the CTX could not, and this is simply not true.

The bottom line, as I've said a million times, is that the target shape is only INDIRECTLY related to the target.  And I strongly believe that whatever the Manticore can do, in terms of "shape," is the same thing the CTX would do.  A good, round, consistently ID-ing target would show up as a small round blob, on the CTX 2-D screen, just as it will on the Manticore 2-D screen.  Likewise, an irony, elongated, bouncy ID-ing target would show up non-round, more like an elongated smear in many cases, ON EITHER UNIT.  So, THIS IS NOTHING NEW! 

That's not to say that the Manticore screen may not be higher-resolution, thus possibly allowing "tighter" circles to be drawn.  And also, of course, the more accurate the ID algorithms are on a unit, the more "small" and "round" a coin or ring will show up.  So, if the Manticore has a more "precise" ID algorithm than the CTX, then the shapes may be "prettier" on a round object (again, those "round" shapes being reflective of the very consistent, non-varying ID...such that plotting multiple snapshots of the x,y ID numbers on an x,y coordinate system would result in a very small/round "dot").

But, my point here is -- DO NOT BE FOOLED into thinking the Manticore is taking any sort of "reading" that would allow a "direct" plot of the outline of the shape of any given target.  The shape of the plot is DIRECTLY related only to the "bounce" or "change" in VDI (or lack thereof) at each sampling interval, and only INDIRECTLY related the shape of the object...

Steve

[rled2005]

3 minutes ago, steveg said:

The paragraph above, that I put in bolded, italicized, enlarged, red text, is -- in my opinion, marketing mumbo-jumbo.  While most of it is largely "true," you really have to read it carefully, as the truth is "in there," but "obfuscated."  The one thing that I believe is NOT true -- and it's why I say it's marketing nonsense, is the part that said, essentially, "while the CTX could plot targets, the Manticore 'takes it to the next level,' by giving the target SHAPE."  The implication there is that the Manticore is doing something that the CTX could not, and this is simply not true.

The bottom line, as I've said a million times, is that the target shape is only INDIRECTLY related to the target.  And I strongly believe that whatever the Manticore can do, in terms of "shape," is the same thing the CTX would do.  A good, round, consistently ID-ing target would show up as a small round blob, on the CTX 2-D screen, just as it will on the Manticore 2-D screen.  Likewise, an irony, elongated, bouncy ID-ing target would show up non-round, more like an elongated smear in many cases, ON EITHER UNIT.  So, THIS IS NOTHING NEW! 

That's not to say that the Manticore screen may not be higher-resolution, thus possibly allowing "tighter" circles to be drawn.  And also, of course, the more accurate the ID algorithms are on a unit, the more "small" and "round" a coin or ring will show up.  So, if the Manticore has a more "precise" ID algorithm than the CTX, then the shapes may be "prettier" on a round object (again, those "round" shapes being reflective of the very consistent, non-varying ID...such that plotting multiple snapshots of the x,y ID numbers on an x,y coordinate system would result in a very small/round "dot").

But, my point here is -- DO NOT BE FOOLED into thinking the Manticore is taking any sort of "reading" that would allow a "direct" plot of the outline of the shape of any given target.  The shape of the plot is DIRECTLY related only to the "bounce" or "change" in VDI (or lack thereof) at each sampling interval, and only INDIRECTLY related the shape of the object...

Steve

I never thought it would show shapes, it places the metallic properties in different places, but maybe that’s just a linear crossover from the sound differences. Which, if you’re like me with hearing issues(from the military), it is a nice visual addition, plus the vibration on handle! I couldn’t resist, so I pre-ordered one.

[steveg]

17 minutes ago, rled2005 said:

I never thought it would show shapes, it places the metallic properties in different places, but maybe that’s just a linear crossover from the sound differences. Which, if you’re like me with hearing issues(from the military), it is a nice visual addition, plus the vibration on handle! I couldn’t resist, so I pre-ordered one.

Yes, you are EXACTLY correct!  It's a LINEAR CROSSOVER from the sound differences.

And don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing the Manticore in any way.  I can't wait to get one, and I'm on a pre-order list as well.  And I agree with you that hearing something audibly, AND seeing it visually, is helpful, no doubt.  ESPECIALY for people who are "visual learners."  

So, this is in no way "bashing."  I'm just trying to set expectations; some people seem to be thinking...encouraged by marketing hype...that there's some "magic" in the Manticore that can plot the outline of the shape of the target for you.  AND THERE IS NOT.  

Steve

[Geordiedan]

Yep, with you there Steve as I think I’ve posted before. I’m looking forward to getting my hands on one as my sites are hugely mixed with historical trash, so every little help for discrimination will be awesome. 

[Chesroy]

For me I would have liked the option to be able to turn off the 2d mapping definitely not a fan.

[strick]

6 hours ago, Chesroy said:

For me I would have liked the option to be able to turn off the 2d mapping definitely not a fan.

Well then just use your Equinox...why bother with the Beast? 

strick 

[rled2005]

7 hours ago, Chesroy said:

For me I would have liked the option to be able to turn off the 2d mapping definitely not a fan.

That’s an interesting idea. A GPS coordinate readout could have been an alternate switchover, but we would pay over $2000 for it I would assume.