Chase Goldman

Couple things here. Note that if you use third party wired phones, you will need to use the Nokta proprietary headphone connector adapter that is included in the base wired Simplex model package and the jack on that adapter fits a 1/4” plug, so if you are using wired cell phone style buds, you will need yet another mini jack to 1/4 inch plug adapter in line. Ugh. Anyway, I highly recommend going ahead and getting the wireless package now, not only because wireless phones are a game changer in convenience, but also because it will likely save you money should you decide to eventually go wireless down the road because you are likely to be able to find a dealer who can give you a hefty discount on the wireless Simplex package vs. paying full price or close to full price on an a la carte wireless headphone buy as as a stand-alone accessory later. One caveat though, unfortunately, Nokta decided NOT to include their $25 wired headphone adapter in the wireless Simplex package though it IS included in the wired package (which makes sense because you need to supply your own wired phones). So if you get the wireless Simplex package and want to use wired phones with the Simplex, for example, in rainy conditions (the wireless phones are not weatherproof, though by design you can use a rain hood while wearing them) or as a backup in the event your wireless phones’ battery drains, you have to spring extra for the adapter or get a pair of compatible wired Nokta phones (like their waterproof model). Regarding rechargeable lithium ion batteries. I have been using them in multiple detectors and detector accessories for the last 5 years and have not yet had the need to replace one yet. Embrace the convenience of that technology and rest assured that you are covered by a warranty in the mean time. Since you purchased your first detector a mere 3 mos ago and are now seriously considering upgrading, it is highly likely you will be moving on to the next best thing before your Simplex warranty runs out (2 years) and almost certainly before your Simplex battery dies of natural causes. Vendor replacement of such batteries outside of the warranty period usually runs in the ballpark of about $35 to $50 dollars depending on the material cost of the battery. Anyway, that’s my 2 cents of advice and info. GL

Lately, the ORX/Deus (I recently obtained an ORX as a backup to my Deus), have been my preferred machine over the Equinox for serious relic detecting. I can just hear the ground better for non-ferrous targets and it gives me a better feel for the target footprint since I primarily use the gold/gold field modes vor relic hunting. The lack of tone pitch and breakpoint customization on the Orx vs.the Deus for the discrimination modes, though not a fatal flaw, is disappointing. I like the Orx large pop-up Visual TID and iron probability display vs. the Deus, though I wish the program navigation button was two-way on the Orx like it is on the Deus so you can toggle back and forth quickly between adjacent programs whike interrogating targets. Lest one thinks gold mode is just for gold, here's a an old Mexican 1850 1/2 Reale that sounded great on my Orx. Bottom line, I think you will be happy with that Orx as a compliment to the Equinox for coin and relic hunting.

I agree with everything Jeff said.

Please post back with the answer of which boots fit if anyone finds out, I am interested in this as well.

What coil are you getting with the used Deus package? If it is one of the legacy (i.e., pre-X35) style Black LF coils your best bet is to go with a new ORX package. If you are getting a white HF coil or an X35 coil, then that sounds like a good deal provided the coil size is big enough to give you tge desired depth and/or swing coverage. The reason being, the HF coils or X35 coils can be operated at least as high as 25 khz whic is a sweet spot frequency for gold and/or mid-conductive relics (e.g., brass and lead). The maximum frequency the old legacy black LF coils can be operated is 18 khz. It makes a difference.

The best thing about CTX/eTrac is the dual Fe-CO based target ID combined with the more sophisticated ferrous-conductivity 2D discrimination patterns that can be programmed into these machines. There are some other interesting tone features built in as well such as pitch hold. But the CTX is slow, heavy, and has a flawed design with respect to it's waterproof rating, namely, the latched, gasketed battery compartment can inadvertently unlatch risking water intrusion AND you have to remove the battery to recharge itm risking gasketcwear and damage every time you do that. Furthermore, the underlying FBS multifrequency implementation has been surpassed by Multi IQ. CTX is a great (oerhaps the best) deep silver machine under ideal conditions. Mediocre on mid conductors. Throw a lot of high density junk targets its way or put it within highly mineraluzed dirt and it caould get outplayed by a Vanquish. I am waiting for ML to pursue a higher end update which combines the desirable ID, tone, and sophisticated descrimination features of the CTX with the advances in multifrequency detection and speedy/sophisticated signal processing of Multi IQ, in a lightweight but more robust waterproof package at more than half the price of CTX.

I have five years on the Deus and I help Andy Sabisch teach the bootcamp course for the Deus. I once believed the statement above, after today, I no longer do. The ORX can get it done as well as the Deus under any condition which just really leaves the tone tweaking you mentioned, which is really a non-issue for me because I use Gold Field or pitch tones and can easily get away with just the 3 tones option that ORX provides. I really am not left wanting with the ORX so far. I understand you were trying to provide perspective to RobNC regarding the additional audio adjustment capabilities of the Deus (what you were referring to by opening it up), but I really don't think it is worth it for him to upgrade to Deus just for tone tweaking. His money is better spent on the Equinox, but I do recommend he hangs onto the ORX.

If there is any way you can still hang on to that ORX and still afford the Equinox, I would do it. I just killed it a one of my favorite sites (more to follow) with the ORX (forced myself to just use it for a whole day rather than going to my old standby the Deus) and I am now starting to think that the Deus is really overkill for the way I use the Deus/ORX settings. I really prefer the ORX user interface (save for a few quibbles). I really think having both the ORX (or Deus) plus Equinox is a killer combination.

Hard to provide advice on your audio perception issues tough ground on a forum, really need to be in the field with you to better understand what your issues are. But I will say this, the Equinox compliments the Deus/Orx and vice versa. They are really two completely different animals with their own strengths and weaknesses. Of the T2, ORX/Deus, and Equinox - I have owned and used all three and I would personally take the T2 out of the equation for the conditions you cite - a combination of high mineralization combined with iron. That is tough for any detector and the Equinox is not necessarily going to fare any better than the Deus/ORX. Regarding ORX vs. Deus. The Deus does provide some additional tweaking ability when it comes to tones and other parameters but the ORX pretty much covers the bases for the situation at hand. If I were using the ORX in the your conditons I would be using gold field mode and let the detector tell me everything under the coil audibly and look for the non-ferrous TID that is worth digging. Using 3-tones/discrimination mode under those conditions is pretty frustrating. If I was going to use a discrimination mode setup under those conditions I would use the Deus pitch mode with iron volume but I think Gold mode on the ORX with it's iron volume (which doesn't exist on the Deus) is just as effective though I do not have sufficient run time on the ORX to be sure. Plan on doing some test runs with the ORX at a site this weekend. Unfortunately, pitch audio is an acquired taste is like all metal mode in that it doesn't really give you an audible target ID, so you are somewhat dependent on the display (same for gold mode on the Equinox) but you really know when you are swinging over a conductive target. As far as the Equinox is concerned, it really wouldn't necessarily do any BETTER than the ORX but it would be different. By that I mean, you will find things with the ORX in those conditions you won't with the Equinox and vice versa because they will communicate with you differently about what they are seeing in the ground. The advantage of Multi IQ is that you might have get slightly more non-ferrous target ID depth with the Equinox whereas the Deus will hear the target perhaps deeper but without a definitive visual target ID. Furthermore, the Equinox 800 provides a few more advantages than the 600 in these conditions. Beside the wider range of settings with respect to iron bias and recovery speed, the higher single frequency options, and the non-ferrous tone customization options, one additional not-so-secret weapon that Equinox has in tough dirt/thick iron is Gold Mode. I use that a lot and it sort of emulates the ORX/Deus pitch tone or gold field mode pitch audio, but not quite as good. I like having the Equinox user profile button available so that I can quickly switch between modes (e.g., Field 2 and Gold mode) to interrogate iffy signals. So that is an advantage of Equinox. I could go on, but not sure I am really helping because I don't fully understand your issues. But as far as kool aid is concerned, Deus/ORX and Equinox just have different flavors and variety is the spice of life. How's that for worthless platitudes. Good luck Rob.

Mitchel - despite the confusion on the CTX tone break setting, I appreciate your efforts to resurrect Gordon’s setups and provide the PDF link as it gave me some good for thought on other possible setups. TBH I am not personally looking to have my Equinox emulate a CTX or FBS machine audio, but Happa and you have made me think more about tweaking the the 50 tone pitch gap to better accommodate my hearing loss. Thanks to everyone who contributed in this thread.

I take it that is a freshwater beach?

Bingo. I don't care whose selling me the detector retail shop or dealer, as long as the source is reputable and I am getting the best deal. I’ll read a book, use the forum, or ask a fellow detectorist if I need after sale help. That being said, it just so happens that the two primary dealers I happen to do business with generally do have the best deals, are knowledgeable, and I have also detected with them in the field. I just consider myself lucky in that regard because I know that is generally not the norm. Frankly, the biggest impediment to a newbie making detecting a sustained hobby is not the detector learning curve or after market ”support”. In the US, at least, it’s restricted site availability. In order to get sustained access you really need to do beach hunting, door knock, or have access to a network of detectorists or clubs or organizations that share sites or provide organized hunts. Public access to detectorists is quickly being eroded by municipal laws prohibiting detecting due to misguided notions of what detecting is all about combined with really poor behavior by some detectorists (trespassing, not filling holes, etc.). Detecting your lawn gets boring quick. After that, once a budding detectorist realizes that most of the time he is going to be digging trash and junk (and how physically draining target recovery is, in general) even after he nearly masters his machine and does get access to productive sites, that’s usually the make or break moment where the hobby either catches on or the machine ends up in the closet.

Sorry, but this still doesn’t satisfactorily explain why the PDF version of Gordon’s 4 Equinox programs explicitly calls out 2 tone breaks for the 50 tone ‘CTX Tones’ program and also has the tone pitch setting (also known as pitch gap in the 50 tones context) at 1,20 which is the 50 tone default setting. The explanation above is basically just restating what is already in the manual regarding how to close the ferrous/non-ferrous pitch gap and has no correspondence to his published ‘CTX Tones’ progam settings. So...I’m still confused as to how CTX Tones should be set up.

Since you ruled out 1.5, did you make that decision to go with 1.75 over 2.0 by thoroughly/exhaustively testing Fe vs. F2 iron bias settings? Otherwise, there should be practically no difference in baseline performance between 1.75 and 2.0 given identical user settings including Fe iron bias. The main performance difference between 1.75 and 2.0 is the F2 bias setting and since 2.0 includes the legacy Fe settings as well as the F2 settings, 1.75 brings practically nothing to the table over 2.0 performance wise and the 1.5 to 1.75 update was the one that changed baseline detector performance with respect to low profile (e.g., edge-on coin) target performance. That is just simple straight forward logic. I suppose one could challenge the assertion whether the “baseline” (i.e., non F2 iron bias) performance is identical between 1.75 and 2.0 but ML’s admittedly vague description of the 2.0 changes doesn’t imply anything beyond the addition of F2 and the backlight enhancement for the 600 and perhaps some low level underlying bug fixes.

? You can only set one tone break when in 50 tones so I don’t understand this recommended setting. Should it just be T1=12?

Noridc, Couple of thoughts. First of all, I agree with you. No one should lose any sleep over which version to use. They are ALL acceptable and get the job done. I have found awesome (and deep) stuff with each and every version. If the masses perceived that the subsequent Equinox updates actually reduced depth, I think we would certainly be hearing about it en masse. That doesn't appear to be the case. Sometimes, things are just circumstantial or you run into an extended cold streak and the perception is something has changed with the detector (for the worst) and most of the time it really just turns out to be dumb luck or poor site selection. Finally, remember that no one detector DOES IT ALL. Equinox like every other detector out there is not perfect. Neither is Deus. But there is something to be said of diversity in detecting equipment and I find for me that Deus and Equinox make a great combination if I have the luxury to hit a site multiple times or have the time to go over the site with both detectors. Also, sometimes you just have to acknowledge that under certain situations one detector is truly superior to the other. I prefer Deus over Equinox in thick iron situations. I prefer Equinox at salt sand beaches. Otherwise, there is a lot of overlap and I find the detectors compliment each other. Final note, regarding that user profile button. I find it VERY useful to quickly interrogate iffy signals with diverse Equinox detection modes before I dig the target. If I get an iffy signal on Field 2, I may have Gold mode or Park 1 loaded up in the user profile slot. Sometimes that can may an iffy target turn into a definite dig me signal. I also use Pinpointer to help characterize the footprint of the target (in fact, I rarely use pinpoint to actually pinpoint a target because I feel I can pinpoint better by wiggling the coil edge off the target). Good luck and HH!

The link in your 2018 post no longer works, at least not for me.

When you run the Equinox firmware updater you can D/L off the ML website , it will check your detector firmware version. On that screen is a drop down menu that gives you the option to update to latest version or roll back to either one of the two previous versions. Honestly, at this point I see no reason to roll back. I respectfully disagree with Nordic’s premise that the updates are biased to larger targets and are sacrificing overall drepth. In fact, ML improved on the ability for Equinox to correctly ID edge on coins which increase low target profile “sensitivity” and should enhance depth performance for small targets. The user profile “reset” bug of the original 1.5 version firmware was also addressed in the version 1.75 update. Finally, the F2 iron bias filter algorithm introduced in Ver 2 is superior to the Fe iron bias algorithm IMO but ML smartly decided to retain the legacy Fe version as a setting option in ver 2, if that is your preference, without having to roll back to 1.75. Not all my issues have been addressed (hello, wonky pinpoint mode) but there certainly is nothing compelling in the previous versions to make me want to roll back to 2.0. And frankly, my quibbles with remaining Equinox “issues“ are so minor I wouldn’t lose any sleep if this were the last firmware update Equinox sees from a bug fix standpoint. I would love to continue to see performance enhancement feature adds similar to F2 in future updates, though. All that being said, I agree that Nordic should go ahead and run the earlier version to convince himself one way or the other and fortunately, ML has made it relatively easy to jump back or jump forward with the various released versions of the firmware.

Looks like a modern snap for a bathing suit or other nautical item of clothing.

YyI've never messed with it, but might give it a go. I don't see that it results in any performance hit. If you simply increase the ferrous-non-ferrous tone pitch gap from 20 to 25 it appears to just shift the non-ferrous pitch up by 5 across the board. If however you shift the ferrous/non-ferrous tone breakpoint up from 0 then you will compress the non-ferrous tone range because there are fewer non-ferrous target IDs. Weird.

With coke in the hole your recovery speed is too low to differentiate the target. Note also with dirt out of the hole the target is essentially in air and that adversely affects depth. Was the Deus angle to pick that target up under those more artificial circumstances?

When hunting relics, I personally like to use Field 2 as that Multi IQ profile favors the mid-conductive metals of which most relics consist, namely brass and lead. Park 2 works also, but I prefer Field 2. In hot mineralized ground, I like to also keep one of the Gold modes in my Equinox User Profile slot so I can use it to interrogate iffy signals. I go into more detail about gold mode and how to deal with iron infested sites in this post. I explain why 50 tones (the default tone setting in Field 2 and Park 2) is my preferred tone setup in general here. Although, in highly mineralized ground it may be advisable to simply go with a two-tone ferrous/non-ferrous setup for reasons explained further below. As far as mineralized ground is concerned, you need to assess how hot your ground actually is. Note that there is no real way to tell if your ground is hot using the Equinox alone as high ground balance readings don't tell you definitevely whether your ground is mineralized, you need a magnetite (Fe3O4) level meter and only a few detectors come equipped with those including Deus, Fisher F75, Tek T2 and some others. I hunt Culpeper Virginia which has insanely hot ground that often pegs the FeO meter on my Deus in the fields. It is less mineralized in non-plowed wooded regions but the other thing to note is that mineralized ground phase is usually comprised of highly variable patches of terrain even over very short distances. I usually invoke ground balance tracking on the Equinox to deal with this. Anyway, recognize that the first thing you will lose is target ID at depth. Beyond a certain depth (typically beyond 4 inches if your ground is truly hot) any hit will sound like iron or will have a jumpy or clipped non-ferrous ID component. The next thing you will lose is ultimate detection depth, the depth at which you get any discernable signal at all. This is usually 6 to 8 inches for me, max, at Culpeper depending on the target. If you are digging minie balls at 10", that's pretty good. Most folks under these conditions are using pulse induction machines like GPX's for max depth. Finally, as Steve said, stick mainly with default settings and minimize mode "hopping" until you really gain confidence with the machine. But also don't be afraid to experiment. Try out beach modes and see what that does for you. You will be likely more limited in depth but the lower transmit power may make the machine run more stable in mineralized ground. From a mode standpoint, there are no real wrong answers as the Multi IQ differences between modes are very nuanced and subtle, the most readily noticeable thing are the different tone, discrimination, recovery speed, and iron bias settings between modes. Good luck.

Also, check out this post by Steve (graphic reproduced below). Note that at the Minelab default setting of 6, that is nearly as "powerful" as Fe = 9 which is the maximum Fe setting, so perhaps not surprising those faint deep silver targets of Simon's are disappearing. Also note that while F2 = 0 is less than Fe = 0 neither means that no iron bias filtering is going on at 0, and that makes sense because even in Vanquish some level of iron bias filtering is always applied, you only have at most two choices low or high iron bias settings, there is no off. I suspect Vanquish uses the F2 iron bias algorithm as I noted in my hunting iron tips here. Besides intensity, I think F2 is inherently different than Fe in the way it processes suspected iron signals, which means that even at supposedly approximately equivalent intenisty settings (e.g., Fe = 0 and F2 = 4), the iron audio response and degree of non-ferrous masking is different. In my limited experience with the update, I prefer F2 over Fe for various reasons, it seems less susceptible to iron masking at low to moderate settings (F2 < 6) than Fe, and I like the expanded range of adjustability. Even though I am also a minimize filters/discrimination, horseshoe all metal guy, I have found F2 = 0 to be a tad overwhelming in the iron infested ground I hunt. Keeping F2 between 3 and 6 (max) seems to work best for me and I am more confident that there will be less non-ferrous masking with F2 at these settings than even the mid-to-high settings of Fe. The depth loss thing, though is something I will have to investgate further and that also makes me question Minelab's choice to set F2 = 6 as the default for the gold modes. HTH

Do they give a double tone regardless of depth? I usually encounter these near the surface because they are not heavy targets and their shape usually means they grab on to the ground and stay put at shallow depths. Most surface targets tend to give a double tone as they echo off the coil edge. But it could also be caused by their shape and orientation in the ground.

I'll have to try that to see if depth is affected, but I think the default F2 setting of 6 is pretty aggressive in the absence of thick iron. Dialing it back to 4 or below should restore those silver signals.