Chase Goldman

Predicore!

Agree. I wish metal detectors used something other than technology.

What I saw was two targets completely surrounded (i.e., 360 degrees) within a few inches by iron at 6 and 8 inches deep that the 6-inch round coil could sneak in there on the 8 inch target (he said that neither coil would stop you on the 6 inch target) while the 9.5 inch long coil struggled. No big surprise there. Right tool for the job. That's not an overall demonstration of the LG15 outperforming the LG24, it's simply confirming the fact that a LG24 will have more targets underneath it in a 360 machine gun iron environment and you'd be better off with the LG15. No kidding. Would really like to see a clean, in-ground depth comparison between the two (and the 11" stock for that matter). Those nightmare 360 degree iron surrounded target conditions are few and far between and I really prefer the benefits of the small elliptical without the large round coil weight and swing penalty or small round coil coverage penalty. If I'm going to bolt that coil on, would prefer it to be more versatile than a specialty one-trick pony like the 6-inch round. JMO

Your phone my be the issue. Does your phone support the Bluetooth LE and the LC3 codec? You typically have to set that up in advanced developer settings. I think Pixel 7 supports BT LE LC3, but not sure about the Pixel 6. I have yet to see anyone verify that the non-proprietary Bluetooth LE LC3 codec is NOT supported by the ML-85/ML-105 phones. Until then, it's hard to judge whether ML has gone the propritary wireless route (i.e., lame) or not.

I do find it takes bit longer to get a stable GB number where there is minimal mineralization. In those cases I just run with the default (doesn't seem to affect depth in mild soil) or do an instant ground grab (hold the pinpoint button) to match the "actual" GB reading it settles to after swinging the coil for awhile.

Understand the frustration, but I think they do care because it ultimately will affect their bottom line with the competition if they don't address the known issues. But the XP Go Terrain app issue is ridiculous and borders on comical because they have been promising it as a feature for all their Deus/Orx/Deus 2 detectors for at least 5 years, without delivering on that promise. So I could see a backlash if Go Terrain is still not functional after the next big D2 update.

Clock is a known issue and should be addressed in the update which I know is currently being tested in the field (no, not by me) as well as several other issues that have been identified. I am not directly involved in this effort but know folks who are testers. Regardless, I have no information on when it is going to be ready for release or specifically what fixes are being addressed as well as any new features. FWIW - I am having no issues with ground balance functionality and have not heard other complaints about that function, so if you can be more specific about the issues I can see if there is a setup/setting issue or pass it along. Also, the EMI cancellation allows me to work with the D2 where I can't with the Equinox, so scratching my head on that one too. About the only place it doesn't work is when I turn the detector on inside my house. I hunt regularly with another D2 user and his experience with EMI cancellation and ground balance mirror mine. Specifics would be more helpful vs. generalizations that imply these functions don't work "at all".

Lol. It's definitely a personal choice. Used square FT yesterday with SS but quickly switched out of it. PWM, for me, gives more dynamic audio and nuance especially to aluminum targets and square seems to make iron audio and my MI6 pinpointer audio more muffled to my ear. But note that I also prefer pitch to FT (there are multiple reasons for this primarily having to do with how FT handles discrimination than with the audio). Bob and I both hunting together yesterday with significantly different D2 audio setups on similar programs with similar results. If you have to force yourself to use it, then that might be telling you something. That's why I say personal choice and the best thing is D2 gives you multiple audio options because our level of hearing is different as is the way our brains process the audio after we "train" them certain way.

A lot to unpack here technically, because there are some definite misconceptions and conflating of technical characteristics here. First of all, TampBayBrad - Strick is right in the sense that in highly mineralized (i.e., hot) ground, increasing coil transmit power is often counterproductive because it tends to "light off" the conductive particles in the soil. The analogy often used is that it is like turning on high beams in the fog. This is what George is alluding to, also. I started typing this before your last reply, so I see you understand that. Furthermore, I have not seen folks who do use the Manticore in hot dirt complaining about its capabilities with this increased coil power capability. They seem to be finding stuff just fine. But the issue with Manticore is that we really do not know what ML means by 50% more power to the coil. It's a marketing tag line, and while I don't believe it is a false statement, I do believe that ML had to crank coil transmit power up to compensate for something else and not just for raw depth ability (although testing somewhat backs up the notion that the Manticore appears to have marginally better depth than Equinox). They may have had to do it so that they could more efficiently distribute power in the simultaneous multi-frequency waveform (MultiIQ+) but they may have also done it to combat EMI. More transmit coil current means the signal-to-noise ratio can be improved, thereby, improving EMI mitigation. That approach involves a number of other arcane technical tradeoffs, but the marketing folks just ran with 50% more power because is "sounds" great to us - and it obviously worked because, well a lot of folks are waiting for Manticore boats to show up and all that. Furthermore, some folks in the thread are mixing up coil power and sensitivity (I think that is what you are driving at Brad). Sensitivity can be adjusted as necessary to mitigate noise, overload, etc. But you are NOT adjusting coil transmit power when you adjust sensitivity, you are merely adjusting the sensitivity of the detectors receive circuit to the received signal. As a matter of fact it is not clear that that the user has any explicit means of adjusting the amount of transmit power to the coil other than through the selection of various modes which likely utilize different (but undocumented) amounts of transmit power. For example, it is a known fact that on Equinox, coil transmit power is reduced in the Beach modes to enhance stability in salt and black sand (because the black sand issues present similar challenges as mineralized soil). I don't own a Manticore and don't plan on getting one anytime soon because my Nox 900 and Deus 2 cover my bases for now, so I have not done a deep dive into the manual to determine if coil power is adjusted with mode selection, but I suspect the same approach for beach detecting used in Equinox Multi-IQ is used for Manticore Multi-IQ+. So yes, Brad, your final quoted statement is true in the sense that adjusting sensitivity on Manticore has nothing to do with adjusting coil transmit power, but because of that higher transmit power, sensitivity might have to be adjusted down to compensate for increased ground noise in hot dirt vs. say the Equinox, all other things being equal. It is a good thing that ML saw fit to provide a lot of headroom on sensitivity adjustments as that enables you to run the machine on the ragged edge regardless of the site conditions. I actually get concerned when I hit max sensitivity and all is quiet, that means that the designers likely left some capability on the table. If nothing else, hope this clears up the difference between coil power and sensitivity for people.

I now own George's Tarsacci for the past 2 years and often hunt in the same dirt. So that might tell you something... I'll let him answer too, but I think we both have the same impression of it - as far as VLF's go, it has the best raw depth in hot soil of any non-PI machine I've used. The discriminated audio leaves a lot to be desired but mixed mode audio is useful and optimizing salt balance and other settings for hot dirt involves a lot of trial and error. I've often considered selling it because I seldom find a situation where Tarsacci is my only option. Either I can get the job done with less frustration with the Deus 2 or I'm pulling out my GPX. But I occasionally pull it out when I just don't feel like hassling with the GPX, so I continue to keep it around...FWIW.

If you’re mainly cherry picking high conductors in modern trash, not a bad approach to go low SF. That's taking maximum advantage of these modern SMF detectors as they also have selectable single frequency capability. But regardless of soil type, if I were going after mid-through-high conductors (e.g., relics) I would keep it in MF as that would “illuminate” targets more consistently regardless of conductivity (you could see the loss of aluminum sensitivity when you went to 4khz). If you care about nickels and gold jewelry, same principle.

I'm an engineer, what can I say…

First of all, what you are experiencing is common in salt surf because of the constantly varying salinity due to the surf. You selected the appropriate mode, Beach 2. After making sure you have done a noise cancel, then you should do is an auto (pumping) GB to establish the starting GB point and then put the detector into GB tracking mode (single press of the +/- button while in the GB settings menu, you should see a sine wave symbol in the upper display). Tracking will help keep GB near the appropriate salt balance point based on salinity variation. If you are still experiencing excessive noise, then yes, you should incrementally lower sensitivity. Note that you likely won’t get the machine to remain totally quiet under these dynamic conditions and any movement of the coil from being parallel with the bottom during your swing will also generate ground noise, and there may also be noise associated with mechanical agitation of the coil in the surf. Regarding your wireless phones, there should be no cutouts as long as the detector control panel remains above the surface of the water. However, since the stock wireless headphones are not waterproof, the salt spray (over time) and an accidental dunking can ruin them, so I highly suggest using either weatherproof wireless BT phones (Quest makes these) or wired phones with the appropriate protected Nox headphone connector plug. HTH GL

Yep. I'm a fan of the smaller ellipticals for all the reasons stated. I have 10x5 permanently bolted to my Nox 900 (previously the 800). But I was just trying to separate fact from folklore. Many underplay the fact that you will lose depth vs. the stock, and was trying to get a handle on that based on HerrUU’s run. 1” is not insignificant but also realistic, thanks for that info on the Simplex comparison. Looking closer at the specs, I noticed also that the Legend LG24 Coil is a 9.5x6 (vs. the Simplex SP24 which is a 9.5x5) so I suspect that the Legend LG24 depth loss will be even less as the total coil surface areas between the LG24 and LG28 (stock round) are similar at 565.5 sq. cm vs 615.8 sq. cm.

Thanks for the report. Can you clarify or be more specific regarding your real world depth loss experience? Is that what you discovered in your field run or what you heard? You will lose depth compared to the stock 11", that's just physics. The key is defining what "lose much depth" really means in absolutes. As discussed earlier, whatever the absolute number is for a given site situation, it may or may not be a big deal depending on the context of the detecting situation. For example, losing half an inch at a polluted site is less of an issue if you are looking for shallow masked targets than the same loss of half an inch in wet salt sand if you are going for deep, small jewelry.

He used to have a GPX and sold it because Nox was adequate for the gold on Magnetic Island and it brought nothing to the table over and above the Nox he was using beach detecting. Also, the Pulse Dive he uses for deep dives is a PI based pinpointer but also has larger mono coils that he utilizes.

Eric, For what you do 900 is more about the physical improvements (CF shaft, better watertight integrity) and literal bells and whistles (Flashlight, vibration) than performance. There is nothing in performance save for a few mm in depth perhaps when using dP (pitch) audio that would make it perform any better than what you have now. If Deus 2 fills the performance and dive gaps of the 800 and 800 fills the Deus 2 gaps on dry sand and prospecting, not worth the Xtra dollars for the 900 until you've worn out your 800. Certainly not worth it to consider the Manticore. JMO.

Now if I could only get my hands on the LG24 and/or the LG30....

Ordered from where?

It's cheaper than paying for a therapist, though the stress level has significantly lowered since I started my new job...retirement. I think you could tell from the last few visits.

You can borrow my spring probe - built for finding huts and privys. I'll bring it next time I'm down.

No, I was too busy digging up my silver Rosie. Enjoyed the dig and coffee as usual. Dug a LOT of targets but only a few keepers. Old lead and brass. An older unidentified .45 caliber dropped lead round a bunch of smashed musket balls and melted lead and one carved lead thing below the .45 cal round. A couple of plated (silver?) pieces of buttons and buckles and a nice oval Colonial era buckle. I did dig one button but it was a snap button for a set of overalls. Dime is '46 with no mint mark. Couldn't get the new Nox 900 to quiet down even in this expansive field and sensitivity set as low as 16. So I abandoned it and went with the trusty Deus 2 which was purring along with sensitivity at 93/100. Will have to figure out what that was all about. Yep, that's Bob along the tree line digging Colonial pull tabs. Great time. My big trash not counting all the fired modern bullets, casings, and buck shot.

The Nox 700/900 has different ears on the 11-inch coil than the first gen Nox 11" coil.

That's where I'm at too Andy. If I get a solid tonal hit and mostly mid scale non-ferrous TIDs I'm digging it. It is just really in stark contrast in what I am used to on the D2, and of course, the 800.