Chase Goldman

Hasn’t Minelab already exploited that opportunity with Manticore? Equivalent performance on the beach and in water without all the pesky wireless downside. Too late XP, you blew it.

Thanks. Interesting. Shows that soil mineralization can potentially push pure non-ferrous at depth into the ferrous limit regions (depending on the profile) such that ferrous limits will potentially mask keepers. This can also potentially happen with the Nox and too much iron bias. So with the M-core it is probably best to go with minimal ferrous limits in hot ground. Perhaps ML can further tweak their Multi-IQ+ signal processing algorithms further to keep pure non-ferrous at depth as close to the centerline as possible in hot dirt. Kind of an anti-mineralization-bias applied to the target signal to remove/reduce the ferrous component of targets so they fall as close to the centerline as possible. This might result in more falsing ferrous but at least you won’t be filtering out keepers.

Dan - did you see my question whether the Minies were showing up OFF/above the 2D centerline such that they were being masked by the ferrous limits? Was that the case?

Great perspective, finds, and pics. Thanks for sharing.

It's kind of like Festivus for metal detectors. It's time for the "airing of grievances".

No, old school Duracell, man.

Frankly, the yard where we pulled those coins WAS mostly machine gun iron, with nails in most of the non-ferrous target plugs. There's more there, no doubt, masked to even the Deus. So it's going to be tough sledding.

No checklists, I just make sure I have backup options if I forgot to do something the night before.

In my perfect world that Apex would also have a PI/VLF selector switch for Culpeper.

4 if you have the XP pinpointer, and 5 if you have a second coil and the provided charger cables only have 3 heads! We're creeping there across the board with wireless audio, though. On my GPX I have to charge the GPX battery, the Z-Lynk wireless transmitter I plug into the GPX and the Z-Lynk MS3 headphones. Thank God the wireless Carrot takes a 9 volt. If you have a built-in transmitter, like on the Nox, then two dissimilar devices that have to be charged if you are using the wireless headset. Back in the day, the Deus three-headed charge monster was daunting and somewhat unique. Yes, a pain in the ass. Today, with wireless audio and utilizing diffrent detectors with rechargeable cells charging multiple devices before a detecting outing is now just a fact of life for me.

That's what I do. I love them all for different reasons. Some even have wires.

No it's not the Cult of Wireless. Some of my best friends are wired. It's whether wireless and wired coils can co-exist without a net decrement to the wireless platform benefits. The question should definitely be asked. It's not like we don't constantly feed back to XP that we need a small elliptical coil, and if wireless is preventing that from happening, well that's not a good thing. I'm just saying is it's a little more complicated than just adding connectors to existing D2 hardware. Though it's unlikely to be considered, based on XP's track record and the investment required, people should lobby XP for an exclusive wired-coil D3 variant because the technical compromises required to accommodate wireless and wired coils (connectors on the remote and WS6) with the existing D2 peripheral hardware would likely detract from some of the D2's best attributes, primarily weight and modularity. For example, I see that to make this workable without compromising the existing design, a minimum of two different remote variants would have to be provided to accommodate the real-estate for a wired coil cable connector and associated larger battery in the remote for power to the dumb coil to avoid increasing the wireless variant form factor and weight. Interesting thought question: It's been over 12 years since Deus 1, why has no one else even come close to equaling the Deus weight class AND performance in a wired design? Is that attributable to the wireless platform? 🤔 Anyway, it's not up to me or you to accept this. It's up to XP. As long as the positive attributes of the existing D2 wireless platform are not compromised and that continued innovation of that platform is not stunted by intoducing wired coil variants, I'm all in. Especially if it results in more accessory coil varieties. It would be great if Gary Black weighed in with his perspective. I think we should all take a hike, quite frankly...to our nearest favorite, unfrozen detecting spot.

Well if I thought the case for wireless was airtight then I wouldn't own any wired detectors and we know that isn't true so maybe we don't want to be throwing the term ludicrous around and putting words in my mouth. I am not here saying Minelab is jacked up for going wireless. So why the burr in your saddle on this one? Live and let live and I'm just expressing my opinion because Simon asked the question.

Because if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Also, that's why God created options like...the Manticore. I understand where you are coming from on this, believe me. But just as you wireless coil haters keep telling us D2 people to not try to convince you that wireless is better, you need to flip that sentiment around, and think about it from the rabid D2 user's perspective. You are going to get pushback from me on making the case for wired on D2 because it is, in fact, a technical regression for the Deus platform in terms of the added weight and complexity that is needed to accommodate what appears on the surface to be technically simple but in reality is anything but that - primarily because of the design decisions that have already been made by XP and are now water under the bridge. For one thing, the antenna if installed and secured properly, works exactly as if the coil were hard wired and can be permanently left in place if desired or removed when not needed. So why does it need to be screwed on (including requiring an additional connectors to accommodate it more parts more weight and more potential failure points)? Once you've got the antenna sorted, it works quite well. No connectors to break, requiring wholesale repair or replacement. The antenna is cheap and easily replaceable if it does eventually fail (never heard of one actually failing btw). If you are talking about a traditional coil cable, then things get more complicated. The wireless architecture is fixed in the sense that active electronics exist in the coil because there is target signal preprocessing going on in addition to the wireless radio electronics. That is not going away with wired coils because that would require a platform-wide architectural change to both the coil and the remote peripherals to accommodate the wires and additional external processing for a "dumb" coil and since real power and signal is now flowing through them, more complex (i.e., heavier, thicker) cables and connectors - further growing the size of the peripherals. Believe me. Deus fans embrace the modularity and light weight of the platform and live with the quirks/shortcomings that come with total wireless and would not appreciate this "upgrade" as the downsides/compromises necessary literally outweigh the upside for those of us who've successfully used the Deus/Deus 2 for a number of years. But if you really want to know why XP is not going there, it is because the Deus is XP CEO/CTO Alain Loubet's baby and no one is going to convince Alain that Deus needs to go wired. Just believe me on this one. And from the looks of the popularity of D2 in Europe and the US, there is no compelling reason for XP to do so from a business perspective. When it comes to design decisions wrt wireless coils you literally hit a fork in the road, either you are all in on wireless or not. If you try to accommodate both then you are just making design compromises that emphasize primarily the worst vice the best of both worlds. XP made their decision to march to a different design drummer and I don't think they are inclined to look over their shoulder and re-think that decision. From a business perspective, it makes sense to differentiate yourself from the competition rather than emulate or copy them if you've got a successful approach to skinning the cat a different way. And for now, they have the totally wireless, ultralight detector market pretty much to themselves, especially after the Air Metal Detector effort failed to deliver. So if you want wired, go with Nokta, Minelab, Quest. Garrett. I hear they all make pretty decent wired detectors. Live and let live in this case.

Yeah. Big problem here in the States. People are robbing mailmen just to steal their post box keys so they can help themselves to credit cards and gift cards sent through the mail and cash in until the cards are cancelled.

Great points, Dig. So far, the only difference I've seen from a performance standpoint between the Nox 800 and 900, is that the TIDs are less stable on the 900 due to the expanded TID range. I like the 900's D-Pitch audio, and some here have run tests that indicate that feature might give a slight depth advantage on targets at the edge of detection, but I haven't confirmed that yet.

Not sure why that would/should have any bearing, but you obviously didn’t press it with the dealer if you have no idea, so he’s going to just do what he’s doing (whether it was an honest mistake, carelessness because he keeps his list on a napkin, or he’s playing favorites or catering to the squeaky wheels). You really owe it to yourself and his other clients to get a straight answer and if you’re not satisfied with that answer, go elsewhere. Yeah, you’re starting over, but frankly not sure you’re any worse off because it appears you’re moving down, not up the list. If you don’t advocate for yourself, then you may be “third” on the list for some time because of the demand for this product. FWIW.

Fantastic finds, Joe! That ring looks like a Native American silver design.

Not to cast aspersions on the farm’s prior occupants, but you’ve heard the one about the traveling salesman and the farmer’s daughter, right? Considering the number of shotgun shells we found in the vicinity and connecting the dots, perhaps the pin was left behind in haste during a quick getaway.

Erik - Glad you brought this up. Short answer: The WM08 does not work with the Nox 700/900. Neither the 700/900 nor Manticore support the ML proprietary Wi-Max wireless protocol that the legacy Nox uses to transmit to the WM08, unfortunately. So that IS another downside. In fact, Nox 700/900 and Manticore use a new BT protocol (BT LE and the LC3 codec, we think) that is not compatible with the BT APTX-LL phones that people used with the Nox 600/800. So that means, for now, the only wireless options are the supplied phones or adding 3rd party wireless claptrap to the Nox/Manticore to attempt replicate the WM08 capability for untethered use of your favorite wired phones.

Is the sky blue? I’m not going to say accessory coils are an obsession for Simon, but… BTW - As a fellow MD hardware addict, I get it…

No, thought of that, but it’s a US site. Not going to provide a link because it’s just going to stir up dust.

That’s interesting, Dan. Are you saying the Minie balls are popping up off the centerline on the 2D display - weird since they are pure non-ferrous with some oxidation>Soil mineralization effect? Also, does the centerline offset (and/or conductive ID) for the Minie’s change with Mode selection or is it just that the ferrous limits profile is changing when you switch modes such that the bullets get masked by the ferrous limits? Sometimes there’s some benefit to the “simplicity” of the D2. Yes, that’s just a tongue-in-cheek, good natured poke for all those who say the D2 is too complex.

Thanks, but it’s more like the other way around. 😀

Thanks for the correction and looking that up, Cap. I kind of tuned it out because it was more modern, and not silver. 🤣. But that’s interesting background and history of the org, founded in the 1880’s to benefit traveling salesmen and is a peek into the long history of the farm occupants. Never heard of it before and now I know…fixed my post. Thanks for the link!