Tom_in_CA

Allen, please share your other commissioned hunt stories. Even if only silver. I've done a few other commissioned posse hunts as well, for silver coins, and will add mine in after yours . Eg.: "Next of kin " who remember family rumors, blah blah. And before the house is sold, figure "we might as well search for it before the ranch is sold", etc.... Now as fun as those are, my bucket-lister is still to find a "wild cache". But you know the drill, with our modern wizz-bang discriminators : We are probably all passing those "durned hubcaps". Versus the old days, of BFO and early all-metal-TRs, where : they were p*ss-poor on individual coins, yet could find soda can and hubcap signals *just fine*. So therefore, ironically, more caches were probably found (albeit by accident) back in the early days of md'ing (mid 1960s to mid 1970s), than today. Because today, we effortlessly pass that "large junk". But in yesteryear, those larger beeps were perhaps all you were able to get (unless it were a coin 3" deep or shallower). I distinctly recall, with my first Whites 66TR, (which is a circa early 1970s all metal TR), that I ended up with more silver washingtons from the school yards, than I did merc. dimes. A ratio which is not logical. But in retrospect, I realize that the silver quarters gave more of a larger signal, than the smaller dimes. So too is the logic, on a larger scale, for those pioneers who were the first to take detectors out to cellar holes, ghost towns, etc... : They simply dug any beep they heard.

Hey there GB, good to hear from you. As for your question of : "Would I have spent as much time if I'd known the challenges", the answer is the same any of us would give : We hunt for the love of the challenge. Just like a golfer's hole-in-one : The more difficult it is, THE MORE WE LOVE THE TASK ! haha Naturally , NO ONE likes it when they don't find that cache or make the hole-in-one. So if you ask the golfer: " Do you wish you'd never played the game ? ", is a mixed rigged type question. And actually, even if I'd known the limitations (that, since the coins weren't touching, that they didn't present the "cigar box sized signal" I had in mind), I still would have tried. Because although they don't represent a singular mass signal, yet, like a coin-spill, they *still* have a bigger signal than a singular coin at 2 ft. As much as I wouldn't have wanted to come away defeated, I love any excuse to get out and hunt. As do we all 🙂 The TM-808 doesn't get lunch box sized items any deeper than standard detectors, IMHO. BUT THE BENEFIT is this : It simply doesn't see small pesky items. Like singular coins, aluminum shrapnel, gopher wire, etc..... It only sees bigger objects. Approx soda can or index card sized, etc.... and bigger. About the absolute smallest it can see, is a silver dollar sized object. And only if the TM 808 is very finely tuned, and the silver dollar is held "just right". But realistically: soda can sized and larger. So it therefore becomes the perfect discriminator to pass smaller stuff. And you're not left to be endlessly "second guessing" all the smaller signals . Which give you nagging doubts that they might be bigger stuff that's simply deep, thus giving a small signal. With a standard machine, you end up digging a bunch of those "just to make sure". But with the TM-808, you effortlessly pass all that stuff. Other than that, the depth is surprisingly not that different. As fr the depth of the gopher wire: I don't recall. Seems that it was underground, unseen. But just in the vicinity of the rootballs around various individual plants . It was actually easy to discern even with the standard machine. And then merely a matter of trying to discern the signal strength (since that's a weak iron signal) versus anything else trying to "bleed through". But still a nuisance, as you can imagine.

Allen's great story of the commissioned search for that family's cache, reminded me of one I'll add here : There is a local dealer here, who has a rental model they rent out (an old 5000D series 1) . A person had rented it, but brought it back the next day having failed to find what they were looking for. They just didn't have the expertise, and were running into common junk where they were trying , etc.... They asked the dealer if he knew of any hobbyists, with more experience, that could help. The dealer referred them to me. I got the call , and asked what he was trying to find. He explained that about 10 yrs. earlier, he was going through a divorce and some hard times. He didn't want his coin collection to be subject to any split terms , so he had boxed it all up, put it into a plastic sealed tupperware tray. He took it to a buddy's house and explained that he needed to hide this "till the heat was off", and asked if he could bury it in his friend's yard. The friend agreed, and the two of them went to this guy's back yard (nearly an acre in size) and buried it. They made mental note of which bush it was near, and paced off the # of steps from a nearby fence, so that they'd have place-markers. Years and years went by. During that time, the homeowner did a lot of garden work in his back yard. Planting new shrubs, moving others, etc.... He also updated his fence. Finally, about 10 yrs. later, the friend came back to get the buried coins. But lo & behold, every bush seemed to look alike. And the fence post they had made mental note of, was no longer the same fence post arrangements. So the two men just started digging random holes in the area that they best recollected from that time 10 yrs. earlier when they'd buried it. To no avail. So they rented the detector. But were in for a rude awakening : The homeowner had installed gopher wire (like chicken-screen substance) around all the tomato plants and such. They got a few typical garbage signals from the yard (aluminum, etc...), but simply didn't know what they were doing. By this time, there were now holes all over the yard. I asked the guy how many coins, and what type he had buried. He described it as 50 or 70-ish gold coins, all together in a cigar-box sized tupperware container. And said he recalled that they buried it no-more than 2 ft. deep. My immediate thought was that this should be child's play. But after a few hours hunting with my standard detector, I was coming up empty handed ! Unbeknown to me, was that all the coins, even though in single container, were all individually in plastic sleeves. Ie.: not touching each other. Therefore, in the same fashion as a necklace, the detector will tend to see them as individual objects, not as a composite whole. The next day I came back, armed with a borrowed TM 808 2-box machine. After another hour or so, I finally got a weak beep. So weak that I almost figured it couldn't be the target (because I was still expecting a lunch-box sized signal). But this was it ! Once we got it out of the ground, and opened it to look at the coins, it was then that I realized why such an amount of coins, at only 2 ft. deep, was difficult : Because since they're not touching, it's not seen as one big signal. It's a more difficult signal, when they're not a continuous singular piece of metal. And the plastic container, of course, wasn't giving any signal. Wish I could say it had hundreds of gold coins like Allen's, but .... oh well 🙂

Love it ! A commissioned posse hunt ! Love those md'r saves the day repatriation stories. thanx for bringing us along. And you very much deserved that tip/reward. Because even though the hunt might not have taken too long, yet you had all sorts of time under your belt , over the years, become proficient with your gear. You can't put a price on skill and know-how.

Love the dug-pix next to the pix of the un-dug. Great sleuthing work and great history !

Good job as usual !

To your recollection, what was the depth on a coin-sized target that that Metrotech was capable of ? And did you do parks and schools turf in those days ? Or strictly relicky pursuits ? (eg. : CW, cellar holes, etc...) ? I've heard of some other early hobbyists in the states in and around VA that also started in the 1960s with Metrotech. But it seems they were primarily CW type pursuits, not turf or yards in regular coin-hunting. So do-tell: What type sites were you hunting in 1969 ?

thanx for bringing us along once again. Great narration that captures the passion. Great scenery. Are you sure the watch is gold, rather than just gold plated ?

coin-master 4. What a trip down memory lane.

I absolutely love the on-location field photos of mother nature's erosion. Thanx ! And please send some of that erosion to CA, doh !

good pix and good sleuthing work. I have found these pins at a base near me which only dates to WWII (1939, to be exact) and later. So they can be as recent as 1940-ish.

Sven, I notice you attribute this city-decision, and sign, to "someone left holes". And perhaps that's the knee-jerk reaction we md'rs have, when we hear of a rule, or see a sign like that. Heck, perhaps it's EVEN THE RATIONALE given to you by the city people, if you asked "Why ?" Ie.: they might, in fact, answer : "Because of holes". So we md'rs go around muttering under our breath: "Durned those md'rs who must've left holes". Right ? But not so fast ! I'm not so-sure that it always points to "md'rs who left holes". Because let's be honest: What is the connotation by a lot of casual passerbys, if they see a man with a metal detector in nice manicured turf ? HOLES of course ! They think that you might be about to dig and leave un-covered holes and scars. EVEN IF THE MD'R WASN'T EVEN DIGGING. And EVEN IF HE WAS LEAVING NO TRACE ! It's merely the connotation he draws from nosy-parkers at the mere sight of an md'r sometimes. So if you get scrammed (or if a law or rule or sign is invented), they will rationalize it by saying "holes". Yet notice it doesn't necessarily mean that anyone truly ever left any holes. The same can happen merely when someone (bless their little heart) shows up at city hall asking "can I metal detect ?" (as if they needed permission). The desk-jockey can get an immediate mental image of "holes". So they answer: "no because of holes" EVEN IF THEY'VE NEVER EVEN SEEN A DETECTOR IN THE PARKS THERE. So the md'r walks way muttering "durned that md'r who left holes". Hence : Don't be so fast to assume that there were holes involved. EVEN If city people say it directly. It can most often simply be because that's what they assumed was about to happen. And even though 99% of us turf-hunters know how to leave no trace.

well done !

I could. But I could also look at the results of side-by-side testing , with those who are already proficient on it. Can see how it stacks up on flagged target comparisons. That would be much more conclusive. Because if I only took it for spins on my own (comparing to my own self, back and forth, with my Exp), then I'd forever be doubting that I was "doing it right" or "should have done a different setting" or "need more practice", into infinity . In fact, that's what I'd be told, if I did my own tests, and posted anything short of glowing thoughts. I'd most certainly be told "you weren't doing it right" or "you need more practice", etc..... Therefore it's better to do comparisons with those that have ALREADY determined that it's superior.

Steve, I am absolutely NOT dismissing the glowing reviews for the Nox. And I saw first-hand that it spanks my Explorer in a relicky iron-riddled ghost townsy location. No problem. But when it comes to turf, so far I have not seen that. Yes I've seen the glowing testimonials, but haven't seen it in action so far. And as for Dan / Raphis : His hunting partner in So. CA, and I, have been in conversation lately : And as it turns out, when they compare signals @ the Etrac to the Nox, they are coming to a draw. Neither has the edge. They can each hear each other's flags, and each make the same TID judgement calls. That's a little different than Dan's report of the move from SE pro to Nox, where Dan is .... yes .... saying the Nox is doing better than his prior SE. But when it comes to the Etrac vs Nox, those 2 guys are not seeing any edge. It could be debated that the SE pro and the II and Etrac are a little different depth-wise. The SE pro incarnation *did* suffer some criticism that it didn't have *quite* the depth of the others in the incarnation lineup of Explorers. Yes I'm "influenced" by all the glowing testimony. That's WHY I'm interested in seeing how it will stack up. If it can at least *match* my Exp. II in the turf (and not even necessarily "spank" it), then that will be great ! Because it's lighter, water-proof, better in iron, etc... What's not to love ? 🙂 We may head back to SF for some more turf hunting. Will report back after that.

Thanx Steve. I'll pass this on to him. If the problem of constant chatter persists elsewhere, he was simply going to take the 3.0 back off. But perhaps he'll try what you say, and re-install for another trial period . Thanx.

Yup. My silly friend simply isn't done with all the steps. It's not the machine vs another machine. It's "you didn't do it correctly". Will love to see him reading this/these "outs". As it turns out, my buddies and I are planning another trip to do some turf hunting in SF . And they (both 800 fans) are simply saying that this particular *ss*kick spot will not be on the list of spots to try . DESPITE the oldies that are being porked out. They are not interested in re-setting, re-installing. They are contented and resolved that this is simply a spot where NO AMOUNT OF FIDDLING is ever going to allow the Nox to outhunt the Exp II. So now it appears we'll be off to other turf zones. Ok, anyone care to guess the outcome ? Ready to roll out the excuses ? 🤣

That's the ticket. 🤣 Another remedy that doesn't need to point to the machine vs another machine itself 🙂 But seriously : I'm game for anything that can prove me wrong. Because I'd certainly like the lighter package, waterproof, etc....

Chuck, This thread, and your response, reminded me of a humorous story . This was posted on a forum a few years back: A newbie shows up at his city-hall park's dept. office, to ask if he can detect in the city parks (I guess he thought he "needed permission" or "better safe than sorry , so I should ask if ok"). The clerks at the front desk had no idea what he was talking about. So after some back-for-explanation, the desk clerk excused herself , and went back to her superiors in the back offices. She emerged a minute later with a "no", and handed him a brochure. The brochure was from the local utility Co, that said "Call before you dig" . And on the cover was a picture of a backhoe digging giant pits in a construction site. When the man realized this was talking about heavy equipment , sewer lines, and utilities-type-things, he objected and told her that this is talking about people who are going to dig 6 ft deep ! Not applicable to md'rs who only dig 6 inches deep. He handed the brochure back to her. She leafed through it, and said to him "But sir, it doesn't say HOW deep, it just says ANY digging". And handed the brochure back to the man. The poor guy left the office more confused than when he'd arrived. So let's face it fellas : We're all criminals. We should all be calling the local utility Co "before we dig". I know you are all grief-stricken with guilt for your crimes. But not to worry. Just box up all your stuff and send it to me. I will absolve your conscience of all guilt 🙂

I love it. I just love it. I will point out this quote to my friend. And chide him : "Tsk Tsk". Just to watch him pull his hair out, haha Ok he will ask : "Pray-tell : What settings did I do wrong ? " Because, mind you, it's never the machine, right ? It's always the user, right ?

Then I must have mis-read something. You might be right. I might have been thinking of some poor reviews (yet that didn't have to do with EMI). And now that you mention it, I HAVE seen posts to the exact contrary (doh!). That some people think it has HELPED with any zones vulnerable to EMI. In fact, that was one of our reasons to go out for a re-match, now that I think of it. That: Maybe this will clear up the chatter that seems to start by 7am on this inner-city-noisy street. But to be safe, we started about 12:30am, so that there'd be no stone left un-turned. But still ... a dismal failure 😞

Dan, this might be true for park turf. Which isn't a blanket of iron. But in my one-time trial period for the carrot, I was at a relicky site with a CTX . And ... it was quite nerve-racking to have the carrot give me a target, which I'd fumble around at-length to find. And finally .... drum-roll .... a teeny bit of iron (thumb-tack sized cr*p or whatever). And repeat a few times. In other words, it seemed like every hole invariably had something else in there that competed with the conductive object. And as you know, that problem is immediately solved with an in-line probe. Don't you get annoyed when small foil or something leads you away from your desired target ? But you're right : Other people have adapted. And have no problem with non-discriminating probes. And now they're even making discriminating probes. Albeit only iron vs non-iron. Not full (or not very expanded) TID.

Yup. Definitely lighter. And yes, does some things the Explorers can't . Like do a cross-over to nuggets. And cross-over to micro-jewelry (if either of those goals was something someone desired ). And yes, can be set up to be a ghost-townsy iron-hunter. And yes, waterproof for someone not wanting to lug around the heavier Excals or CTX's . BUT, there's more to it : 1) Doesn't allow for the inline sunray probe 😞 (that was deal-killer on the CTX for me, for instance). 2) I have yet to see that it outperforms the Exp II in the turf (but am willing to be shown). C'mon, get up here ! 🙂

Since you say it's possible to happen to the Nox too, then I'm willing to say that this is one of those rare flukes. As I say, I realize it's not conclusive. Which only makes me want to try the same tests elsewhere. We shall see. Because since the nox kicked my #ss at a relicky site, then I sure as heck want one, *if* it can be shown to likewise kick my #ss in turf. So far, I haven't seen that. I'd be willing to simply get one *only* for relicky sites . Except that there's probably matching ability in several other machines. Like the Deus, the Racer, etc.... And it's also tempting to make the plunge for no-other-reason than it's waterproof. But seeing as how we've had 3 lame winters in a row (no storm erosion), I rarely hunt the beach anymore. Nor is angling for micro-jewelry an interest for me.

Dan, as I said, I would agree with chalking up differences to "experience", if the only thing the 2 guys did is to compare end of the day tallies. BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE. We're talking flagged signals. Where NO amount of added time and added years of experience will change a signal that's simply not there in the first place. And/or that no amount of control configurations make the signal sound any different than the static and shallow trash you're wanting to pass. My friend *could * sometimes bring-in the flagged target. But then he'd be brutally honest and admit that once he toyed with the settings to get it, that it rendered the machine a noisy useless heap elsewhere. And trust me: He's been on forums for the past year reading anything and everything he can about the pros & con's of every setting. And he did quite well (spanked me) with his Nox in a Gold rush relicky site. Him and Greg. S (whom you know ) kicked my b*tt with their Nox's, in THAT type venue. But I have yet to see it happen in turf. ( Greg S has moved out of CA as of a few weeks ago, if you haven't heard. ) No. I'm referring to the SE with the pro coil. Not that original lemon coil Don't get "lost in the example". I was only referring to your citing your tallies, as somehow being proof of an authoritative voice on this latest matter of Exp. vs Nox in turf. For example, you've noticed that in manufacturer advertisements, sure enough they can find someone, who's used their machine, that has a DAZZLING table display. Yet as you know : That alone does not automatically mean : "Therefore That machine spanks all others". It merely means that single guy did good with that machine. And yes, Minelabs have taken over the market (in probably most states by now). 20+ yrs. ago, in a group hunt of 30 people here in CA, you'd see a variety of Whites, Fisher, Garrett, Tesoro, and Minelab, eh ? And now, 20 yrs. later, what do you see ? 95% of them will be swinging Minelabs. Doh ! I can only imagine my friend tearing his hair out if he reads this paragraph. Because ... Dan ... we're not talking "mere tolerance to some chatter" here. He pulled his headphone jack out to let me hear what he was hearing. And there is no way in h#ll that any hunter can hunt (and get any depth on hard-targets) with that sort of chatter. Something was/is definitely wrong, that is WELL BEYOND mere "tolerance" and "experience" levels. The problem with you potentially coming up , to try this exact area, is that if the same thing happens to you too, you can write it off as an isolated fluke, on *just* that night or day. It would be inconclusive, to where no-amount of getting spanked would convince you. I'd certainly love to try it though. And from there, no shortage of other turf within 30 min. drive, with totally different flavors.