Tom_in_CA

GB-amateur, I got news for you : ALL parks disallow "digging". It might use the word "dig." Or might use alter and deface. Or destroy or mutilate, etc... Yet guess what ? : MD'ing, as you know, is common place in parks all across the USA. Do you think all those md'rs are lawless miscreants ? So my suspicion of how any such "yes but you can't dig" type rule came to be, was someone in the past that went swatting hornet's nests with "Can I ?" questions. As for the Tennessee thing: That has long since been debunked. But , as shown by your repeating it, just goes to show how bad news never dies, but good news never gets off the ground. Here's what happened , and how it spread, and how it was debunked years ago : a) Some purist university archie in Tennessee (who hates md'rs) was interviewed or wrote an article or something, and claimed that md'ing was illegal in all of Tennessee b) Some sincere well-meaning skittish md'rs , from Tennessee, picked up on that news piece, & got all up in arms worried about this. And went to 1) spread the news on a lot of md'ing forums, to likewise get all sorts of other TN md'rs panties in wads as well. And 2) who all went "seeking clarifications" (after all, you "don't want to get arrested, eh ?). And 3) forming solidarities to fight this, blah blah. Which made this info spread like wild-fire. The more people chimed in, then the more people saw it, then the more forums it showed up on , etc... c) BUT GUESS WHAT ? That originating kernel of supposed info. was flawed IN THE FIRST PLACE. Here's why : That purist archie, had made his comment based on ARPA. And tennets of the trinomial archie system (eg.: historic monuments that get an archie # assigned to them) . He just assumed that since ARPA is federal, that it therefore subrogates down to lower level states, counties, and cities. BUT THIS ISN'T TRUE. And same for the trinomial archie # system of locations: THAT ONLY APPLIES TO JUST THOSE SPOTS. Not the "entire state". In other words, the "entire state of TN" is not an "archaeological spot", as this guy would have you believe. I mean, go figure, he's a purist archie. So OF COURSE they couch anything they say in the most dire terms. So the guy was plain wrong. But here's the rub: Guess what happens when enough md'rs "get their panties in a wad" and worry and seek clarification on this ? Then sure as heck, this "pressing question" keeps appearing on bureaucrat's desks to answer. And then guess what ? See the vicious self-fulfilling circle ? It's as if we md'rs can be our own worst enemies 😞

D-Dancer, Re.: your link and post : There is a lot of info. to un-pack and clarify. For starters, me thinks you're confusing county level info, to mean "all land within a county". Or state info to mean "all land within the state", etc..... But it doesn't work like that. Instead, an answer coming from the county would only apply to county land (like county parks). And have nothing to do with state, fed, or city lands. And same for something that the state says. That would only apply to state parks, and not other governmental entity forms of land. Also, those nifty compendium sites, like in your link, have a BIG "devil in the details". Any time anyone has ever tried to make a one-stop-shopping compendium like that, they are always fraught with "gotchas". In a few cases, sure, they might point you to a specific rule. Ok. But if you read closely, a lot of the supposed "no's" you read, are merely someone's having asked "can I ?" in the past. They get told "no", and then it makes its way onto these nifty lists. Yet is no where codified as such. This psychology/phenomenon was made very clear when an author "R.W. Doc Grim" wrote a book in the mid 1980s (before the internet) called "Treasure Laws of the United States". He attempted to make a compendium book, where all the states would be listed in alphabetic order, where users could simply turn to any given state, and see what the laws were for their state parks (hence it didn't deal with county or city level parks). And guess how the author went about getting his info to put in his book ? SIMPLE: He xeroxed off 50 copies of a letter , sent it to each state capital heads of parks dept, asking : "What are the rules regarding the use of metal detectors in your state parks ?". And letting them know he was writing a book. Then he merely sat back and waited for 50 replies to fill his mail box. Genius idea, right ? I mean, who better to ask, than the top-dog of each state park's parks after all, eh ? And when he got all his reply letters back, he printed them in his book, with their actual letterhead shown, etc.... So that if you were ever accosted by a busy-body, you could just show them right out of the book that it's ok , blah blah . And conversely, if the answer was "no", then you'd save yourself embarrassment, right ? Genius idea, right ? But a strange thing happened : A lot of the states sent back confusing replies. Eg.: "No because of cultural heritage issues" (even though nothing specifically said 'no md'ing' ). Or No because of alter and deface verbiage. Or no because of disturbing the wild-life. Or no because of rules that forbid harvest and collect. Blah blah. And oddly, a lot of these answers were coming from states that, quite frankly, had never been an issue before. So you had old-timers sitting around scratching their heads saying "since when ?" See how that works ? It's the old "No one cared till you asked" routine. And trust me: The same phenomenon can be the originating kernals of info found on those nifty links, like the one you give. So sometimes you need to take them with a grain of salt, or read between the lines.

Couple of things to say to this 2-valen : Is that an actual law/rule on the books (that truly says "no md'ing" ?). Or was this a "no" answer you fetched when asking someone "Can I ? If it IS true that there is laws/rules on the books, for their parks , that actually says "no md'ing", then I have a sneaking suspicion of how those came to be. Care to take a guess ? In a lot of those cases, if/when you are able to trace back to origins, guess what the usual originating kernel is ? Yup, you guessed it: Someone going in and asking "Can I?" questions. Thus someone in-power must "invent a rule to address the pressing issue." In the entire state of CA, I can't think of a single city that has any specific rules. And can think of only 3 or 4 (in the entire state) that ever dreamed up a "permit". And even in those locations, you NEVER get "carded".

Do not confuse state-level laws, with anything to do with county or city level laws. State rules would only apply to state parks. Not other entity level's parks. And it is extremely rare for any cities to have ever dreamed up a "no md'ing " law. Personally, when I'm traveling around, and pull into a new city, I do not hesitate to hit any park I come to. As long as it's not an obvious historic monument, or unless there is a sign saying "no md'ing ".

I would digress from this view. It may in fact "hurt" to go asking-when-not-necessary. If it were true , that there is "restrictions" (eg.: a law or rule that said "no md'ing"), then you would be able to look that up for yourself, if you are skittish. Ie.: park rules and muni-codes are no secret in this digital age that we live in. If you see nothing that says : "No md'ing", then presto: It's not prohibited. The problem with going and asking desk-jockeys is: You run the risk of bumping into the "No one cared UNTIL you asked" psychology . Eg.: Someone envisions geeks with shovels, so they just give you the "safe" answer. I've seen this happen countless times at places that, quite frankly, had never been a problem prior to that. And to be honest with you, it's actually very rare , on the city and county levels, to ever have a true "no md'ing" rule. Instead what you might get the stink-eye for is that md'ing has ... uh .... "connotations". That you might be about to alter or deface the turf. Fine : Go at lower traffic times and avoid such kill-joy lookie-lous. We're simply not going to please every last person on earth, and we don't need princely sanctions red-carpets rolled out for us.

you are on the right side of the USA : The western states. Study the "southern emigrant trail (aka Gila trail) that came through AZ. Find the stop spots where they would have tended to "rally the wagons" and bedded down for the night. Eg.: water holes, etc.... Then isolate that that have no modern influence (eg.: a town or modern ranch houses didn't sprout up on the spot, etc.... ) These would be spots where those persons who had packed up their life to head west, might have been packing some gold coins with them. For that matter, simply stage stops. Also military camp locations that cover mid 1850s years of usage.

Ahem ahem, yes I've found many more than him, haha. (can you please repeat that for cal cobra ?) 🤣 No I've never found 2 in a day. But I did find 2 in one week once. And yes, one of my 16 is as rare as his 1865 s $5 gold : My 1862 s $10 gold . In both cases, there's "less than 100 known", or something like that. It's a crap shoot as to whose is more numismatically valuable. Depends on grading. But as I recall, the values were in the same ball park.

You are now officially a studmuffin. Congrats on the holy-grail hole-in-one of md'ing. Will you autograph my metal detector please ?

Nah, I'm too stubborn. Besides, if I made the switch, then Brian ("cal cobra") wouldn't have anything to rib me about. And then he'd be saying "I told you so". I can't let him do that. Haha But seriously now : I hunted recently a few times , at an iron-ridden gold rush site here in the sierra foothills of CA. They had Nox 800s, and I was using the Exp. II "tank". Their target counts were higher. So on a few occasions, I had them flag signals , of iffies, so I could compare. And I HAD to admit that on some of them, I would not have heard them or dug them. And they would turn out, sometimes, to be deep camp lead, or some little doohickey that I *SHOULD* have heard. Other times it would be iron that fooled them . But, that was to be expected, since we were all "grasping for straws" and chasing any hints. Thus yes, for a ghost-townsy iron-ridden spot, the Nox is superior to the exp. II. It's never been a secret (long been admitted) that there are better machines for iron-see-through. That's why I've always packed a Silver Sabre or Bandido for when I encounter such locations. But I'm still of the opinion that for other venues, the Exp. II would win various duels, for various types hunting and locations.

good play-by-play and pix !

I have heard of several CA private mint coins being found . But I don't recall any fractionals off the top of my head.

great post !

Cool story Bashin. Thanx for sharing. If it turns out to put a bad guy behind bars, or has some info. on it to solve a crime, then : Good on you for your part !

Bingo, I was having nightmares even reading about using these various PI's for relic sites. When I was the Virginia relic shootout at Dec. 2018, I saw several guys with high powered machines like the 4500. And granted, they can cut "any soil". And granted, they can get a coin to nearly 2 ft. deep, blah blah. But let me tell ya something: We didn't see those guys ANYWHERE near the sites where structures had been. Ie.: there were a half dozen sites where old homes had been, that are nothing now but a giant swath of iron, with crockery and glass bits all over, etc..... Those hunters with standard machines, which had disc., were able to pull some keepers from these areas (coins, buttons, etc.....). But the pulse nugget machine guys were no where to be found. So sometimes you have to be "careful what you wish for". The devil can be in the details.

Congratz on the semi-key date barber dime. Looks like that after some spit and tin-foil, that could turn out to be worth some $$

Paul, I always look forward to your guys's mouthwatering reports. Great pix, great play-by-plays, great coins, etc.... Thanx for taking us along ! You certainly deserve those gems, because I know you work hard for them. Congratz !

Good story. Good play-by-play. Love the green patina on those IH's.

Two large cents and a half-dime in a single hunt. Sheesk, that's good !

Yes. But correct me if I'm wrong, but : In Europe, that's like you or I finding wheaties. Right ? 😕

I would also point out that there's a lot of fabulous videos (typically coming from overseas Russia area) that do indeed show amazing feats and depths on coins, or various circumstances. But the devil is always in the details. For example, I can make a very tantalizing video, if I wanted, of a gpx 4500 or gpz 7000 that can be shown to get a quarter to nearly 2 ft. deep. Eh ? And it would be hard to argue with video evidence, right ? And that's easily a foot deeper than standard coin machines on a quarter, right ? So who could argue with that type of extreme depth, eh ? The worked out parks will 'come alive again' , right ? But as you would easily know : The devil would be in the details : There is no way in heck that the gpx 4500 or gpz 7000 is something you're going to take the park, or school or ghost town, etc....... You will quickly get a "dose of reality", and reach for your standard discriminator machine .

^ ^ this ^ ^ Reminds me of a dealer demo. I saw one time, back in the late 1980s or very early 1990s, of someone showing off a device called the "iron eliminator" . And in his audience table demonstration, he attempted to show that it was not hampered by ground minerals, by taking a bag full of super mineralized sand . So mineralized that I think a magnet would even stick to it. And he puts a coin on the other side of the bag, and demonstrates that his device *still* gets the coin. The audience was spell-bound. Until a wise person in the audience pointed out that all he had merely done was tune the machine to *JUST* that singular bag/sample. Such that anything out of *THAT* norm would ....sure ..... cause a beep. But that's not the real world were the moment your coil goes a few more feet in any direction, then presto, it's no longer the same ground.

ssheeesskk. And to think us USA hunters "knock ourselves silly" to find a coin from the 1800s. Doh ! 🥵

As you and others have noticed: The road was recently graded. I realize that you & RJ still think it's a "period loss", by virtue of .... perhaps .... it had been buried, and then brought-to-the-surface by the heavy-equipment blade. I suppose that's possible. However, .... I notice you're still waiting for a gun ID buff to chime in, on the ID. If it turns out to be modern then .... it's just a modern loss. But even if it's old, then be aware that people still have old guns in use, even to this day. For example, when I was a kid, my neighbor was still hunting with his grandfather's turn-of-century rifle. I work in road construction, and also do a lot of demolition hunting (ie.: "following bulldozers" when they're in old-town districts). And to me, that gun seems like something that'd only been there a few years, dropped perhaps after the last road-blade dozer had gone through there. I might be wrong, but .... just sayin' ....

And for clarification sake: One of the "$5's" that I counted (in my "eight") was actually an 1829 British Sovereign gold coin. Found at an east-to-west migration stopping spot . It is the equivalent of a USA $5 gold. And was found in the context of gold-rush era east-to-west migration spot finds. Ie.: Mexican reales, super-early seateds, etc.....

Gerry, as with Andy I say : It is an honor to get an input/reply from an industry/hobby-respected voice like yourself . To answer your questions : Two $20s, three $10's, eight $5's, one $2.50, and two $1's. And no, the "larger vs smaller" (as if TID/selective -ness , ie.: cherry-picking disc have anything to do with it) are not a factor at all. Instead, the total factor is: Location location location. This one was found with a Minelab Explorer II Yes I do not count caches (or "scattered caches" ) as the same type find. For purposes of gold-coins-found. In the same way that people don't generally count gold coins in jewelry (in bezles) as "gold coins" . And count them as "jewelry" instead.