Why First Texas Is Not Going Anywhere

[Steve Herschbach]

4 hours ago, Bill (S. CA) said:

Steve,

Very interesting piece on First Texas.  I wonder just how much of their business is and will be night vision?  Government contracts can be huge so it wouldn't surprise me in the least if this becomes their core business so to speak.  As you and others pointed out, they can make low cost detectors by the palate for warehouse stores and still make a buck.  For me it is a bit of a bummer that they have had to look outside for new tech.  You may recall for several years they were messing with BBS after the Minelab patent expired.  One of their prototypes even made it onto a treasure hunting series.  The machine never worked because from what I hear you had to set it up custom for every environment you were hunting in.  I don't think First Texas has anyone on board who understands multi-frequency technology; they are essentially a single frequency VLF company and don't appear to have a problem being such.  So outside of the Manta/Impulse AQ, whenever it gets here, I think we are left with only Minelab and Nokta/Makro when it comes to advancing technology.

Hi Bill,

They have been in night vision a long time and I’m sure it’s big for them.

I don’t think there is any shame in acquiring a good outside idea when you see one. Companies do it all the time and would be stupid not to if it gives them a leg up. TDI was acquired by Whites from Eric Foster for example.

Carl Moreland was instrumental in the V3i and absolutely brought multifrequency expertise to FT, though I do think you are correct in saying that BBS is a tougher nut to crack than it would appear for an expired patent. And for gosh sake they make the analog CZ and have the original designer on board! Surely a digital CZ is possible.

I just don’t see Manta/Impulse as moving the needle. Beach PI is a niche in a niche. The gold prospecting market is huge however, so the Terra version has more promise. The problem for FT is there are just so many ways Minelab can respond with what they already have on the shelf it’s going to be a tough go. The GPZ may weigh a ton and cost a fortune, but no prospector will set it aside for something less powerful.

They need something to counter Equinox, no doubt about it. I have faith Carl can do it. The question is whether management has the will to drive that aspect of the company forward or not. The fact they were willing to invest in something as oddball as Manta tells me yes. I think people counting FT out will be surprised still. At least I am hoping so! 

[Steve Herschbach]

2 hours ago, Rivers rat said:

And what about XP????

RR

What about them? Honestly, they are a one trick pony so far. Deus is amazing, not doubt about it. But ORX is just Deus Light, a subset at a lower price. Where is the genuine waterproof beach machine? Their true multifrequency machine? Their PI detector? Love to see them. They are doing great with Deus but unless they break out of that mold they are limited going forward. NokMak is moving aggressively on all fronts. They are committed to true multifrequency next in the Simplex housing and PI in the works also. Not a hint from XP those things are coming, though we should not count them out.

[Rivers rat]

XP marketing is ......inexistant.Same as fisher .Nokmak is different i agree.For XP I am pretty sure something is in the making.

Personally for Nokmak at the moment they havent release a machine which grabbed my attention or precisely my needs but i bought a propointer mainly for the price it is well manufactured and tick all the boxes.

 

RR

[Cal_Cobra]

9 hours ago, Bill (S. CA) said:

I don't think First Texas has anyone on board who understands multi-frequency technology; they are essentially a single frequency VLF company and don't appear to have a problem being such.  

I don't know, Dave Johnson is still there, but no idea what he's up to, and they have Carl Moreland that was on the White's V3i team, so they do have the expertise to build a SMF machine, but Carl once stated that a typical VLF machine has about 10,000 lines of software code vs a SMF like the White's V3i which has over 100,000 lines of code, so it's multiple magnitudes of increased complexity to design a SMF detector. 

BTW Carl frequents this forum and I'm sure he's reading these posts.  Unfortunately FTP is tight lipped about everything, so he cannot really say much about what's going on.  He's hinted that there's big projects in the works, but than again that's been the word on the street for eons.    It sure would be fun to see FTP or Nokta/Makro make a SMF that can compete or best the Equinox.  

[LowTide]

FTP and any of these companies wanting to delve further into SMF have to wade through Minelab's patents.  And Minelab continues to pump out patents on a regular basis.  So with each passing day they stake out more technology territory which they will defend.  And they have proven it by whacking White's and XP on the nose. 

FTP circuits.......I don't think Flextronics is very concerned.? 

But I'm sure their NightVision stuff is a hot seller in California because they keep turning off the electricity.?

 

[GB_Amateur]

On 11/13/2019 at 1:20 PM, Steve Herschbach said:

(First Texas) needs something to counter Equinox, no doubt about it. I have faith Carl can do it. The question is whether management has the will to drive that aspect of the company forward or not. The fact they were willing to invest in something as oddball as Manta tells me yes. I think people counting FT out will be surprised still. At least I am hoping so! 

And not all that long ago (in detector development years?) they hired Carl.  I don't think that was so he would help make night vision goggles.

 

[Cal_Cobra]

On 11/13/2019 at 6:21 PM, LowTide said:

FTP and any of these companies wanting to delve further into SMF have to wade through Minelab's patents.  And Minelab continues to pump out patents on a regular basis.  So with each passing day they stake out more technology territory which they will defend.  And they have proven it by whacking White's and XP on the nose. 

FTP circuits.......I don't think Flextronics is very concerned.? 

But I'm sure their NightVision stuff is a hot seller in California because they keep turning off the electricity.?

 

That's not really true, that's only true if they want to copy ML, and patents only last for so long.:

A U.S. utility patent, explained above, is generally granted for 20 years from the date the patent application is filed; however, periodic fees are required to maintain the enforceability of the patent. A design patent is generally granted protection for 14 years measured from the date the design patent is granted.

So anyone could make a SMF machine they just need to make sure that their SMF technology isn't a copy of ML Multi-IQ, as BBS and FBS patents should have run their shelf life.  

Not only that, but how does a patent filed in one country affect another country?  I don't actually know, although I suppose I could ask our patent attorneys at work, but they probably have better things to do than discuss metal detector patents with me haha

 

[Jim in Idaho]

Unless ML filed for patent protection in the US, they would have no protection in the US. From what I learned chasing my patent, you must file in every country where you want patent protection.  In most cases, it's not worth the hassle and cost to pursue patents elsewhere for Americans, unless you have pretty decent worldwide marketing. But for other countries the US is a BIG market, so is worth the effort.

Jim

[Cal_Cobra]

11 minutes ago, Jim in Idaho said:

Unless ML filed for patent protection in the US, they would have no protection in the US. From what I learned chasing my patent, you must file in every country where you want patent protection.  In most cases, it's not worth the hassle and cost to pursue patents elsewhere for Americans, unless you have pretty decent worldwide marketing. But for other countries the US is a BIG market, so is worth the effort.

Jim

That makes a lot of sense, because why would a U.S. attorney/court be able to enforce a law from another country - simple answer is (for the most part) they cannot.