Argyris Posted June 2, 2020 Author Share Posted June 2, 2020 Guys, any guess on the VDI observation above? What causes this large increase in VDI of these pure aluminum nuggets when using 5 khz single freq vs low weighted multi? I know that this is a common tell-tale to ID iron containing bottlecaps when checked with 5 khz (they do jump in higher vdis)...but what about these pure iron free aluminum nuggets? Maybe it has to do with their shape irregularity and 5 khz catches that and multi doesn't..?....I don't know! ps. As you can see, all other good targets (coins/rings) didn't show the same vdi increase when checked with 5khz...they were +/-1 point VDI steady between multi/5khz. In my newbie perspective, I would assume that I can use this 5 khz check method and ignore everything that shows a large VDI increase when checked with 5khz vs multi VDI....but it was just an air test so I don't feel confident enough to use it before I get some of your insights on this phenomenon and if it could indeed work in real hunting conditions... Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjc Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 Just an afterthought--I have a beach that's full of this slag too. Run the F2 up at 8 or 9--it will knock out these complex alloys. This is a very valuable feature that no other detector has best I know. cjc 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argyris Posted June 2, 2020 Author Share Posted June 2, 2020 5 hours ago, cjc said: Just an afterthought--I have a beach that's full of this slag too. Run the F2 up at 8 or 9--it will knock out these complex alloys. This is a very valuable feature that no other detector has best I know. cjc Many thanks Clive, I definetelly have to check this in iron-free areas (beach) where masking is not a risk.... I thought that iron bias would help only with iron-containing targets (eg bottle caps), but I have to try your suggestion for sure, thanks a lot! ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Hillis Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 Argyris, I think you need to take it to the field and put it to the test. Both your 5 kHz vs MF and Clive's FE settings and see what they do. HH Mike 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argyris Posted June 2, 2020 Author Share Posted June 2, 2020 Agree Mike... that's the only way to test those great tips in practice and figure out by myself how to interpret their outputs....Overthinking it and overasking it is definetelly not good....so I'm just waiting for the Friday to come and then (at last!) I'll have 4 full days of real field hunting & testing. Till then, I'm glad that I was lucky enough to collect all these great info that everyone provided in this thread, so huge thanks to all! Best, Argyris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Herschbach Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 6 hours ago, Argyris said: Guys, any guess on the VDI observation above? What causes this large increase in VDI of these pure aluminum nuggets when using 5 khz single freq vs low weighted multi? I know that this is a common tell-tale to ID iron containing bottlecaps when checked with 5 khz (they do jump in higher vdis)...but what about these pure iron free aluminum nuggets? Maybe it has to do with their shape irregularity and 5 khz catches that and multi doesn't..?....I don't know! ps. As you can see, all other good targets (coins/rings) didn't show the same vdi increase when checked with 5khz...they were +/-1 point VDI steady between multi/5khz. In my newbie perspective, I would assume that I can use this 5 khz check method and ignore everything that shows a large VDI increase when checked with 5khz vs multi VDI....but it was just an air test so I don't feel confident enough to use it before I get some of your insights on this phenomenon and if it could indeed work in real hunting conditions... Thanks Target id up scaling is not unusual with single frequencies in certain ground types. I see it a lot on aluminum in my ground, with pull tab “beaver tails” reading as silver dimes in many detectors. One big advantage for my using multifrequency is that multi is less prone to this. It’s not something that happens everywhere, and frankly I am a little surprised to see it in air tests. You might want to do a full factory reset if you have not done so recently and check some of those again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EL NINO77 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 .... Program Park 1, Field 1, the programs are a bit related to the Beach Program ..... this means that they are better resistant to saline soils, as well as to terrains where they are strongly enriched with fertilizers - also salts .... - where they have deeper detection properties as well as more accurate and stronger * ID than Type2 programs. Of course, the salt elimination algorithm itself also brings reduced sensitivity to very low conductive targets - such as aluminum foil, or very small parts of aluminum ... while low conductive targets such as small silver forged coins are already sensitive enough and have a good range. This could also explain the lower ID for some small pieces of aluminum ... While the low water coin already has a numeric ID comparable to Type 2 Programs ... As for the separate 1F frequency 5khz ... at Equinox ... 5khz does not mean that the detector is completely less sensitive to small things .... soon one is that this frequency is more suitable for searching for large high-conductivity targets ... from silver coins - through ... copper, bronze buckle clasps, and after iron militaria ... to which this frequency naturally has a better sensitivity, and better releases iron .... for such objects has 5khz smaller signal attenuation in the ground .. Anyone who has ever worked with powerful detectors at 6.6khz .. he knows very well these detectors can be sensitive enough to dig up a few BB projectiles on one detection .. It happened to me that on a 2m section of a slightly snow-covered forest walkway with such a detector on an 11 "coil ... I dug 3 pieces of these BB shots one after the other .... The use of 1F frequencies of 5 and 10 khz alone can bring interesting results where you cannot work on multifrequency due to field conditions ... it is a very strongly mineralized environment ..for which the multifrequency is already very sharp and therefore unstable ... Using high iron bias / bootle cap reject function / I recommend in two cases: 1.removing the positive signal of a colored object from the iron-plated object ... 2 .. elimination of short positive signals from very small non-ferrous objects - works very well in combination with very high recovery speed ... in combination with the Beach2 program ..- which also reduces depth and sensitivity to very small objects ... here I would recommend using an 11 "standard coil or a large 12x15" coil .. small 6 "coil can be flat into small pieces of aluminum still sensitive enough..at also on the Beach 2 program ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This detector works at 6.622khz..but the range in Airtest at 0.1 grams of gold is 11cm .. .. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Comparison of Equinox coils to small pieces of lead... in Program Park2"... 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick N. MI Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 That's great information. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argyris Posted June 3, 2020 Author Share Posted June 3, 2020 Some great info in you post El Nino77....Thanks a lot! I already saved a 5khz programm in the user profile slot & will test it in every signal produced by other modes (beach 1/park 1) before digging, to see if it can help me somehow to ID/give me clues to ignore unwanted or complex targets (falsing iron, tiny low conductors, melted aluminum nuggets). As expected, it can ignore super tiny low cunductors, but also gives a strange jump in the VDI of some specific junk vs solid rings/coins but I have to confirm in field...same phenomenon as with bottlecaps (and yes, I did a factory reset and still does this VDI jump in specific junk targets, especially the large melted aluminum nuggets vs coins/rings) Regarding Iron Bias (max F2), I already see some VERY interesting results in mixed-complex alloy targets as Clive suggested to test... Indeed it seems to give high clues if a targets is 100% single metal composition (eg pure silver, pure copper) or "microscopic" (atomic level) well mixed alloys (eg karat gold, silver coins), VS bimetallic makroscopic alloys (bimetallic coins, large melted aluminum nuggets that may contain other metal to, etc)...great example the 2€ coin to observe what i'm saying, but knocks-out many of my large melted alum nuggets also so definetelly needs more testing. Based on the 2 facts above, the most interesting observation is that the aluminum nuggets that give a large increase in VDI when using 5 khz vs multi, are the same ones that are knocked-out if I use iron bias F2 @ max setting.....xmmm Anyway, can't wait for Friday to come and go hunting to test all of the info here... Thanks guys, my very first thread in the forum has already pay-out with some very usefull tips! Best to all, Argyris 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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