New Nokta Makro Simultaneous Multi Frequency And Endless Possibilities For The Future

[☠ Cipher]

One thing that has always impressed me, and which seems to be an indicator of just how complex SMF is, is the fact that to my knowledge and last I looked there’s not a single SMF DIY circuit in the wild. This tells me it’s not something just anyone can do. It takes a special kind of talent. 

One of the things that makes Minelab so effective at making these platforms is It’s their baby and they believe in it. They believe in it to such an extent that it’s becoming their entire VLF product line. Years ago when Garrett was dragging its feet on SMF and even recently from NM we’ve heard that SMF is not always the best solution and similar ways of minimizing the technology. If they don’t believe in it the way Minelab does, will they ensure they put everything they have into it? Idk.

Reaction to the Apex seems to me to be lukewarm and not just because it’s not waterproof. It just seems like an “also ran” type of effort just to put something out there, and not something they really believed was better than current inventory.  I think people are hoping for something better than Apex from NM. I just wonder if that’s possible right now, or if we will keep seeing more delays. These delays may not be like the relatively short delays of the past. Look how long this issue has had First Texas stumped and they have guys that have done this before and believe in it. Dave Johnson once thought it would completely overtake single frequency. We know Carl is enthusiastic about it. SMF is a whole different ball game. So much more can go wrong and so much more can be unforeseen, particularly if you’re not convinced you believe in it. I’m rooting for them though. 

[bigtim1973]

The fisher CZ line ran at 5 and 15 khz and they were fixed and not selectable. So to me they were the first to run a dual freq simultaneously.  Too bad fisher isn't trying to consolidate one if those into a smaller lighter package with a DD coil and waterproof. It would sell very well.

[Jeff McClendon]

1 hour ago, bigtim1973 said:

The fisher CZ line ran at 5 and 15 khz and they were fixed and not selectable. So to me they were the first to run a dual freq simultaneously.  Too bad fisher isn't trying to consolidate one if those into a smaller lighter package with a DD coil and waterproof. It would sell very well.

The lack of ingenuity by FTP in regards to the CZ line of SMF detectors is stunning. Many on this forum have been begging FTP to do something.....anything to the CZs. They have managed to clone, rebadge, redesign the control box housing somewhat and add some features to most of their detectors. If they had just done any of that to the CZ 20, CZ 21 or the CZ 3D. The components used to produce those detectors are so old, I don't see how they still can keep making them without some serious board level component upgrades.

And then compare that to the Minelab Sovereign with BBS simultaneous multi frequency from 1991. The Sovs and the CZs look strikingly similar. Minelab definitely did not stand still and stop SMF development with the Sovereign, unlike FTP.

I have been testing another Garrett Ace Apex with the latest updated software for the last two weeks praying that it would be better than the first one I tested......... I sure hope Garrett does not stop there with their SMF technology.............. I am still singularly unimpressed with the Apex. I guess I have been spoiled by Minelab's SMF technologies.  I hope Nokta Makro really nails it with their SMF technology.

[bigtim1973]

On 9/3/2021 at 6:15 PM, Jeff McClendon said:

The lack of ingenuity by FTP in regards to the CZ line of SMF detectors is stunning. Many on this forum have been begging FTP to do something.....anything to the CZs. They have managed to clone, rebadge, redesign the control box housing somewhat and add some features to most of their detectors. If they had just done any of that to the CZ 20, CZ 21 or the CZ 3D. The components used to produce those detectors are so old, I don't see how they still can keep making them without some serious board level component upgrades.

And then compare that to the Minelab Sovereign with BBS simultaneous multi frequency from 1991. The Sovs and the CZs look strikingly similar. Minelab definitely did not stand still and stop SMF development with the Sovereign, unlike FTP.

I have been testing another Garrett Ace Apex with the latest updated software for the last two weeks praying that it would be better than the first one I tested......... I sure hope Garrett does not stop there with their SMF technology.............. I am still singularly unimpressed with the Apex. I guess I have been spoiled by Minelab's SMF technologies.  I hope Nokta Makro really nails it with their SMF technology.

Amen to that one brother!!

I got to admit I have been looking at some older minelabs recently. I had several sovereigns myself and took them for granted due to the lack of displays and recovery speed. 

So I went with other machines and look back now at how advanced those really were.

So maybe there was some engineering at Los Banos that didn't get to FT when the bought fisher. I thought it was Dave Johnson who came up with the CZ wasn't he? 

He played a part in the DFX as well if i am correct. So.....it too can run select 3 or 15khz or both. 

So is Dave not at FT or retired now?

[Jeff McClendon]

I can’t answer some of those questions……..Maybe someone with inside FTP information will.

I never used the Sovereign……or a CZ.  I really like the DFX even though it has plenty of shortcomings in higher iron mineralization. One of my hunting buddies still does really well with his using a Bigfoot coil for shallow recent drops. If the price and condition were right I would buy another one. Rather have it than the SMF detector I am testing right now.

[palzynski]

7 hours ago, Jeff McClendon said:

...

I have been testing another Garrett Ace Apex with the latest updated software for the last two weeks praying that it would be better than the first one I tested......... I sure hope Garrett does not stop there with their SMF technology.............. I am still singularly unimpressed with the Apex. I guess I have been spoiled by Minelab's SMF technologies.  I hope Nokta Makro really nails it with their SMF technology.

I have also done more testing with the Apex the last weeks as the fields are plowed over here. I will provide more details in a post in the Garrett forum but I could compare it with a Deus HF and a Vanquish 540 . Up to now I have been detecting around 30 hours with the Apex . It is a good machine , not as good as a Deus and a little unstable in the irons , but faster and more reactive than a Vanquish , at least in my European conditions ( mild soil , high iron trash ). It is also lighter than a Vanquish. 

The most annoying for me with the Apex is some lack of reliability . I had to send a bad Viper coil to the Garrett after service - I know I am not the only one - and sometimes I have to disconnect/reconnect the coil connector due to erratic signals. I hope that Garrett will definitely solve these issues .

On 8/29/2021 at 5:39 PM, ☠ Cipher said:

... even recently from NM we’ve heard that SMF is not always the best solution
...

I agree with that , SMF is not necessarily the best solution , at least in my European conditions  . During my last comparative tests between a Deus , an Apex and a Vanquish 540 in a plowed field , ultra high iron trash , the Deus was the best machine   , then the Apex silver medal , and the Vanquish bronze medal. I will add more details in an other post of the MD ADVICE and COMPARISONS forum.

[Jeff McClendon]

38 minutes ago, palzynski said:

I have also done more testing with the Apex the last weeks as the fields are plowed over here. I will provide more details in a post in the Garrett forum but I could compare it with a Deus HF and a Vanquish 540 . Up to now I have been detecting around 30 hours with the Apex . It is a good machine , not as good as a Deus , but faster and more reactive than a Vanquish , at least in my European conditions ( mild soil , high iron trash ). It is also lighter than a Vanquish. 

The most annoying for me with the Apex is some lack of reliability . I had to send a bad Viper coil to the Garrett after service - I know I am not the only one - and sometimes I have to disconnect/reconnect the coil connector due to erratic signals. I hope that Garrett will definitely solve these issues .

I agree with that , SMF is not necessarily the best solution , at least in my European conditions  . During my last comparative tests between a Deus , an Apex and a Vanquish 540 in a plowed field , ultra high iron trash , the Deus was the best machine   , then the Apex silver medal , and the Vanquish bronze medal. I will add more details in an other post of the MD ADVICE and COMPARISONS forum.

So far both of the Apex I have tested have been reliable, comfortable to swing and enjoyable to use. I have no complaints about build quality at all. My main complaints are lack of target ID accuracy on any targets which aren’t shallow,, lack of overall depth and fairly slow recovery speed which results in target masking. All of those complaints just reinforce the fact that the Apex is an entry level detector that happens to have SMF. I believe it would be an excellent saltwater beach detector and a solid choice for a USA made entry level detector. I could get by with it in a bed of nails and for areas where good targets are not very deep. Non-ferrous targets are being completely masked sometimes in my testing. It scored a 7 with an Indian head penny in position 1 and a 5 with the same IHP in position 2 using Monte’s ’Nail Board test so total score was 12. My Simplex scored 14 and my Deus scored 15 with 16 being a perfect score.

 I believe that SMF is great technology. However some SMFs like the Vanquish and most of the earlier Minelab and Whites have very good target ID at the expense of speed and they are not good in dense iron trash. 

[☠ Cipher]

4 hours ago, palzynski said:

I agree with that , SMF is not necessarily the best solution ,

I would agree with that too if we were to add the important caveat “not always.” My only point is it seems not a good reason not to also have a multifrequency option. I would hold the equinox up as a better example than vanquish for reactivity, and as an example of how you can have your cake and eat it too, but I think if reactivity is the most important factor for you, Deus is still the gold standard. This seems to also be true even when we are talking about dedicated single frequency units. But then, equinox out paces most of them too, which shows that you can walk and chew gum at the same time. I’m not convinced that an all in one like equinox couldn’t be created that could do as well as Deus in a single frequency mode. Maybe Nokta Makro will pull an upset and be the ones to do it first. It’s pretty close even now. We are talking almost splitting hairs at this stage, so I think it can be done, and I think you can have it all as things evolve. 

[Chase Goldman]

44 minutes ago, ☠ Cipher said:

I would hold the equinox up as a better example than vanquish for reactivity, and as an example of how you can have your cake and eat it too, but I think if reactivity is the most important factor for you, Deus is still the gold standard.

Agree.