Deus 2 Vs Nokta/Makro Legend

[Steve Herschbach]

On 11/20/2021 at 7:22 AM, strick said:

Nokta was picking a fight with Minelab in that silly video

They also showed a guy tossing his Apex in the sand. That kind of disdain for competition does not appeal to me personally. I prefer companies just talk about their product, not takes swings at the other guy. They want to blow off Multi-IQ as just marketing fluff, when in fact it’s a real breakthrough. Multi is nothing special, it’s how you implement it. Whites DFX and Apex, for instance, offer what I call weak multi, that really only benefits on the beach. Nothing special outside that. Multi-IQ however offers true discernible performance benefits above and beyond single frequency, which is why the single frequency modes go almost unused by most Equinox owners. So while NM wants to imply all multi is the same, the truth is exactly the opposite. The secret is in how you process the frequencies, not how many you have.

[Steve Herschbach]

2 hours ago, abenson said:

I think any testers that release any head to head comparisons better have at least 50 plus hours on either the Legend or Deus 2 before any conclusions are drawn.

I totally agree. The first YouTube “testers” are just trying to be first, to get the views. It takes a lot of time to sort this stuff out. I know, been there, done that, and not taking the time to really use the machines in favor of snap decisions on planted test beds, well, yeah, whatever. I’ll wait for a consensus to develop in maybe 6 months minimum after the machines hit users, and rely on multiple trusted sources. It’s not like Equinox got instant acceptance either - just the opposite as the skeptics piled on. I expect more of the same here.

Gotta admit it would be fun to be part of the game, but I simply do not have the time. I’m hot on the gold trail, and every hour I spend this year has to be on the hunt for gold, not testing this versus that. I suspect it will be largely splitting hairs anyway, not like some huge advance in capability I don’t already have. For a PI guy, any VLF is a big step down. Tarsacci really disappointed me in that regard after all the hype about it discriminating to PI depth. Sorry, no, not even close in my ground. So for me it’s all a battle over which machine of all these less powerful detectors is the best, not what I actually intend on using. 

[☠ Cipher]

On 11/20/2021 at 4:45 AM, Steve Herschbach said:

XP Deus II at $1599

versus

Nokta/Makro Legend at $635

Is Deus II worth over double the price? And how do both match up against Multi-IQ? Only head to head field tests will tell, but this looks like a real grudge match if I ever saw one!

The price of the Legend is kind of shocking. I expected it to be maybe $100 cheaper than an Equinox 800, but over $300?! I’m a bit more suspicious than others about what NM is up to with moves like this. It’s nice to save $300, or in the case of Deus II $1000, if all else is equal, but what long term effect does this have on industry innovators? Is NM trying to raise the bar on competition, or purposely trying to make it unaffordable for them to compete and continue to innovate by adopting and then underselling the product. And personally I’ve never wanted everyone in the world to take up metal detecting, as I know what that does to our hobby, so making it more affordable is not appealing to me. I’m not rich by any means, and some sectors of this hobby are too expensive, but I’m fine with the price of admission and advantages being harder to come by. It’s taken me years to get where I am and I’m ok with that. So I think we have to ask ourselves a couple questions. Are these companies overselling us by that much or is NM trying to crush them with their own innovations? Is the truth in between even? Do we really want Metal Detecting to become so much more affordable and popular? While the new machines and things might seem good right now what are the long term effects of all of this for us and for those who take the expensive and time consuming chance to lead and innovate? 
 

Im kind of picking on NM here when both XP and NM have kind of repackaged Minelab’s technology and now selling it back to us. I’m just worried that the long term effect of this will be to make it not worth the bother to innovate. That this is a Walmart kind of maneuver. Come in, temporarily undersell, shut down the competition, raise prices back up after they are gone. I could also be way off base, IDK, but it’s been on my mind. 

[Joe D.]

   I'm not going to attempt overthinking any covert maneuvers, that any of the companies are possibly attempting! I consider myself, an  intermediate detectorist at best, and focus on the most bang for the buck! Under a thousand dollars is where I live! You all, that have been at this a long time, generally have higher expectations and needs, than myself!

    That being said, I'm not worried about too many people sticking with the hobby! The Legend is squarely priced in that "sweet spot" for people in my intermediate realm! Many will probably buy, use a handful of times, and give up, or sell! Great for the secondary market, and NM's bottom line! Or maybe some of them may simply move up from one of NM's lesser models, and stick with it for awhile!

   I'm ok either way, as I don't look at other's detecting as competition, but rather as allies against the overregulation of our hobby, and more voices to help change some of the limiting rules already in place! Many of us aren't getting any younger, and personally, l don't mind a younger set, who know the proper rules, to follow behind us, and keep the hobby alive and well! JMO??

 

 

[RobNC]

Well I can tell you that in my area there is at least 1 moron who leaves pits and never fills the holes they dig. For a long time I wondered who was doing it but found out for sure who it was. The guy lied about it, blaming it on some other random individual when it was he who was carrying a regular variety garden shovel and digging the holes that day! To see more idiots like that out and destroying grass giving us all a bad name is not something I would want.

When you start talking about lower detector prices causing a flood of new people, I don't think they need to buy a Nokta to be an idiot. They have plenty of options available today already that are much cheaper. An idiot leaving craters around is an idiot, whether he/she is swinging a $50 detector or a $5,000 detector. The idea that expensive detectors can only be afforded by the "elite detector professionals" is also a bunch of garbage. Stupidity and crater diggers have no dollar value, they are found at every level!

[Joe D.]

Right there with ya Rob,

This is a little off topic, but every price range has idiots! Price is not a limiting factor for stupidity or lack of common sense! But for the most part, it's the few beginner's who don't bother to learn anything about the hobby; just buy an "off the shelf" detector, and dig away without any knowledge of ethics, or consequences! Of course, there are exceptions, and some "seasoned" people who just don't care! Or are trespassing, and digging illegally! We can't police everyone!

   But on the plus side, many new people that I have seen come to this forum, and others for advice, info, etc... seem to care, and are mostly aware of the general rules of the field, as they have been reading this, and other forums, as non-members for awhile, which is good to see!

   You also have to remember that there are "those" that don't approve of "Treasure Hunters" in general, and are willing to go to great lengths to throw us all under the bus, every chance they get! Even to the extreme of "staging" spots to "blame" on those ? metal detecting guys!! ??

[Steve Herschbach]

2 hours ago, ☠ Cipher said:

The price of the Legend is kind of shocking. I expected it to be maybe $100 cheaper than an Equinox 800, but over $300?! I’m a bit more suspicious than others about what NM is up to with moves like this.

It’s not a particularly wise move from a business perspective. I’m not sure they would have sold any less for a couple hundred bucks more, and that’s just leaving money on the table. The only reason there would be is an attempt to disrupt the market/buy market share. Some would also call Minelab doing what they did with Equinox to be the same thing, but as the dominant player it gets cast more as predatory pricing, intent on killing competitors. It may have helped push White’s into the grave. So in that respect as the scrappy newcomer NM is kind of throwing Minelab’s game back in their face. Ultimately NM still have no real market mind share though, and so to me this does look like an outright bid to get some recognition and market share. It hurts Minelab far less than it does First Texas in particular, and Garrett, and leapfrogs both those old line companies purely from a technical standpoint, even if you ignore the price. People are still going to buy Minelabs, but with machines like this, why buy a Fisher?

Repackaging Minelab? All detector companies have been borrowing and reusing concepts from each other for as long as detecting exists. Just like any other industry, whether it’s bicycles, PCs, shoes, or golf clubs.

[Steve Herschbach]

2 hours ago, ☠ Cipher said:

Do we really want Metal Detecting to become so much more affordable and popular?

Too late. That ship sailed a long time ago. If anything the Garrett Ace started it, not this.

[phrunt]

Set the R&D costs aside as they get them back over time with sales of this and future models the Legend will cost similar to what the Simplex does to actually build in construction costs, they're making good money on the Simplex so they're making a lot of money on the Legend.  You only have to look at the Chinese clones and how cheap they can sell them to see what the actual production costs of detectors are where they can make and ship a high end Fisher model knock off for $100, I'm simply talking construction costs of the detectors, they're very low.  Nokta being made in Turkey and Minelab being made in Malaysia where production costs are very low...   What do you think a GPX 6000 costs to actually make? Very little, in the hundreds.

It happens in a lot with various products, the higher the model is in specifications the more profit is made on it.   They put the Legend at a price they think gives it an edge, they could go a lot lower if they needed to and they'll do that with specials and promos in the future by throwing in coils or pinpointers and hats and other gear to try take more of the market share.

The fights on now and we are at the interesting part, the manufacturers have put it out there what they have, let's now see how they respond to each other.