Deus 2 Vs Nokta/Makro Legend

[Sven1]

22 minutes ago, phrunt said:

Set the R&D costs aside as they get them back over time with sales of this and future models the Legend will cost similar to what the Simplex does to actually build in construction costs, they're making good money on the Simplex so they're making a lot of money on the Legend.  You only have to look at the Chinese clones and how cheap they can sell them to see what the actual production costs of detectors are where they can make and ship a high end Fisher model knock off for $100, I'm simply talking construction costs of the detectors, they're very low.  Nokta being made in Turkey and Minelab being made in Malaysia where production costs are very low...   What do you think a GPX 6000 costs to actually make? Very little, in the hundreds.

It happens in a lot with various products, the higher the model is in specifications the more profit is made on it.   They put the Legend at a price they think gives it an edge, they could go a lot lower if they needed to and they'll do that with specials and promos in the future by throwing in coils or pinpointers and hats and other gear to try take more of the market share.

The fights on now and we are at the interesting part, the manufacturers have put it out there what they have, let's now see how they respond to each other.

The Chinese T2 knockoffs were costing them $30 each to produce. Orig. Quest wireless headphones from the Chinese manufacturer, found could buy the Transmitter and headphones for $12 per set. 

[phrunt]

Fisher have nothing to lose now as they don't even have a horse in this race.   The last race they participated in was the Vanquish, Simplex and Apex release as their T2/F75 variants were up against them and well I'll let anyone be the judge of where they were positioned in that race.  Even then they were riding on an old horse with decades old technology so they have no investment in that race they just let their old previously high end technology complete against modern day entry level machines. 

If they haven't made back their R&D and production costs and garnered a substantial profit off those detectors by now there is something wrong and I'm sure they have, they've been on the market for such a long time.  The days of doing that are gone, detectors are becoming more like normal electronic products now with a much shorter lifecycle.  Those that don't keep up with the pace are out of the race.  Counterfeiters won't be such a problem with more regular new models, having a detector on the market for decades is asking for trouble.

The multi frequency general purpose machines are even making their flagship dinosaur Gold Bug 2 redundant, or at least an even more specialist machine than it already was.  Now for a majority of people just using a multi frequency machine with a small coil can be just as good if not better than using a single purpose gold prospecting VLF machine.  I think Nokta know that too as they've culled down their gold VLF's to just the Kruzer and Gold Finder 2000, there is no need for a big range of models when multi purpose multi frequency machines can do it all.  Their other single frequency VLF's will be sitting on the shelves at discounted prices.

I'm happy Nokta, Garrett and XP are in this race, we don't need another monopoly like Minelab have on the high end gold machines and it would be awesome if these detectors like the Rutus enter the race as mainstream detectors too. 

[CPT_GhostLight]

We are living in interesting times. While two or three companies have made press releases of their new flagship model detectors, they are in fact playing catch-up to another company's three year old mid-line detector and there have been no direct impartial real world tests comparing their performances in real scenarios yet. The real race has not even started yet as all of the players are not at the gate. Post your bets, folks! ?

[☠ Cipher]

4 hours ago, CPT_GhostLight said:

We are living in interesting times. While two or three companies have made press releases of their new flagship model detectors, they are in fact playing catch-up to another company's three year old mid-line detector and there have been no direct impartial real world tests comparing their performances in real scenarios yet. The real race has not even started yet as all of the players are not at the gate. Post your bets, folks! ?

Well said. I don’t think it was a good look to be taking so many pot shots at a company they’ve borrowed (to put it mildly) so heavily from either. A thank you would’ve sufficed lol. 

[Guest Tnsharpshooter]

On 11/20/2021 at 9:43 AM, Steve Herschbach said:

They also showed a guy tossing his Apex in the sand. That kind of disdain for competition does not appeal to me personally. I prefer companies just talk about their product, not takes swings at the other guy. They want to blow off Multi-IQ as just marketing fluff, when in fact it’s a real breakthrough. Multi is nothing special, it’s how you implement it. Whites DFX and Apex, for instance, offer what I call weak multi, that really only benefits you on the beach. Nothing special outside that. Multi-IQ however offers true discernible performance benefits above and beyond single frequency, which is why the single frequency modes go almost unused by most Equinox owners. So while NM wants to imply all multi is the same, the truth is exactly the opposite. The secret is in how you process the frequencies, not how many you have.

I am in total agreement with you Steve here.  I have already commented on this on another forum.  Besides, naming the tech the way Minelab did could be helpful with communications within the company.  I sure don’t know all things Minelab are working on.  

[phrunt]

It may end up a bit of a mistake by Nokta, they're starting a war with a giant and who knows how far along the Nox 1000 is, and what improvements it will include.   They may even have the CTX 3030 replacement in the near future pipeline, or even better a combination CTX/Nox replacement on the cards.  Pointing out Minelabs build quality and constantly making a big deal about it by Nokta is also a short sighted thing, sure it may hurt the 3 year old detector a bit, most who wanted one have one now anyway.  Now Minelab know what to improve to fight back and throw it in Nokta's face.  Love this stuff, it greatly benefits us, the end users!  Bring on Nokta's cheekiness and attitude, it's going to backfire on them.

It's a bit like New Zealand picking a fight with USA.......

[mh9162013]

6 hours ago, phrunt said:

Pointing out Minelabs build quality and constantly making a big deal about it by Nokta is also a short sighted thing, sure it may hurt the 3 year old detector a bit, most who wanted one have one now anyway.  Now Minelab know what to improve to fight back and throw it in Nokta's face.

I don't see what the big deal is.

Are you saying that because N/M took shots at Minelab, Minelab is now motivated even more to produce a better product?

And are you saying that N/M's insults to Minelab brought to their attention problems with the Equinox that Minelab wasn't aware of?

I presume we'd agree on the fact that Minelab's motivation to product the CTX 3030 replacement or the Equinox 1000 isn't/wasn't affected by N/M marketing insults. I think we'd also agree that Minelanb is aware of the Equinox flaws, even without N/M pointing them out.

However, I think N/M taking shots at Minelab is a net positive. Sure, it might annoy some people, but I think one of N/M's biggest hurdles right now is name recognition and brand awareness. By the latter, I'm preferring to people not understanding where N/M's products fit in against the competition. Also, don't forget that Minelab has taken its fair share of shots at Garrett, although perhaps in a more subtle manner.

I think it's fair to say amost people currently considering a mid-level and/or SMF metal detector right now are aware of the Equinox and Apex. So whent hey hear about the Legend, they're probably asking themselves, "ok, but why should I buy a Legend when the Apex and Equinox have already been out a while?" 

I believe these shots at Minelab address that question. Not only do they get more attention ("no news like bad news"), but they succintly tell a prospective customer why they should get the Legend instead of the Equinox.

[phrunt]

Well you missed the point entirely, the CTX which came out before the Nox has the same weak coil ears, the Vanquish that came out after the Equinox has the same weak coil ears.  They had no motivation to fix the issue.  Now with the Competition attacking the build quality and using it as a marketing tactic they're VERY likely to fix it on the Equinox 1000, you can bet the 1000 will have marketing going on about enhanced coil ear strength.

It benefits us as all our kicking and screaming didn't get Minelab to fix their coil ears, maybe Nokta's gloating will do the job better.

[mh9162013]

5 minutes ago, phrunt said:

Well you missed the point entirely, the CTX which came out before the Nox has the same weak coil ears, the Vanquish that came out after the Equinox has the same weak coil ears.  They had no motivation to fix the issue.  Now with the Competition attacking the build quality and using it as a marketing tactic they're VERY likely to fix it on the Equinox 1000, you can bet the 1000 will have marketing going on about enhanced coil ear strength.

It benefits us as all our kicking and screaming didn't get Minelab to fix their coil ears, maybe Nokta's gloating will do the job better.

I think Minelab's motivation to fix any issues would come from competition from another company releasing a superior product (or at least a product that addresses the flaws in Minelab's products) rather than a competitor hurling insults.

I could be wrong, but that's my thought process, at least.