New Detector Features

[scott162]

All the discussion around Manitcore and its characteristics over the span of target types, soil types, trash etc, made me think of a feature I would love to see in a new detector.

"Target Replay"

This would allow one to save the target screen and audio for replaying later - it could be used for training, comparison to other targets, sharing with others, diagnose issues, and plenty more. It would be great to have 10 or 20 replays available and select one to use. Both display and audio would be replayed in sync for the recorded duration. Only a few seconds (10, 15, configurable?) would be needed.

What else should be on the wish list for new detector(dream machine) features not yet seen or conceived?
A combined PI/VLF maybe?

[phrunt]

I believe the CTX 3030 used to be able to capture screenshots, they disabled it in a later firmware I think, I've never tried it so maybe it does still work.

They talk about it in this Treasuretalk.

https://www.minelab.com/community/treasure-talk/ctx-3030-snapshot-feature

Not quite as good as what you're describing but someway there, and it would only be a feature on a detector with internal memory for storage like the GPZ and CTX so the likes of the Equinox and Manticore would need an entire new model to be able to do it, not just a firmware modification unfortunately.

All I want now in a detector is more depth (if ever possible), louder internal speakers (I'm talking to you GPX 6000) and more coils, other than that, I'm satisfied.  I've run out of ideas what I'd want in a new model detector as I'm happy as can be with what I've got given the hardware limitations and I guess physics involved limiting improvements.

I still think the Manticore and Nox 700/900 would benefit from more accurate ID's, it's taken a step backwards from the Nox 800 which took a step backwards from the CTX 3030, at least in my soils so rather than getting worse with target identification I'd like newer models to improve.

[PimentoUK]

I too thought a 'replay' feature had some uses.
Some posts of mine on Dankowski's forum in 2014:

"Regarding the visual display: I can see some use if you were able to store the previous few seconds of audio data, or raw data. Then if you heard a sound that alerted you, you could grab a trigger-switch, and review what it looked like in a visual perspective. You could replay the audio, too, I guess, so you could determine if it was how you though on the first hearing."
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"Re-reading the above posts, and when I read my line:
"You could replay the audio,.. so you could determine if it sounded how you though on the first hearing"
And it occurred to me that replaying in 'slow-motion' might be useful, so you can pick out the details, like the subtleties the original poster mentioned - raspy, clean, clipped, slight iron buzz etc. In principal, if your raw data is stored, then the detector could do a more thorough analysis/processing of the signal before it presents it to your ears at half-speed (or suchlike).
In practice, I find it straightforwards enough to just re-sweep / pinpoint etc to get the repeat and home in on the target. But as the implementation of the 'slow-audio-replay' feature is just a button-push, it's not the most far-fetched idea."
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"I've posted previously about 'capturing' sweep data. Originally, I had thought a 'replay' function would be useful, where the past 5 seconds of data could be re-heard, and perhaps at slow-speed. Then it occurred to me that if the data is already stored, it can be analysed more thoroughly : it's not essential to aim for low latency such as 80 msec; and the peak of the signal can be determined after-the-fact, rather than having to do it real-time. But this can be extended to intentionally storing a slow sweep ( to gather more data ) then analysing it, and re-playing it at 'normal-sweep' rate."

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[TampaBayBrad]

How about a larger circumference search field than the coil 's size?

Let's say an 11" coil has the search field of a 22" coil.

You wouldn't have to deal with the added weight of a huge coil strapped to your detector.

We can all dream.

[strick]

4 hours ago, TampaBayBrad said:

How about a larger circumference search field than the coil 's size?

Let's say an 11" coil has the search field of a 22" coil.

You wouldn't have to deal with the added weight of a huge coil strapped to your detector.

We can all dream.

It already has that kinda...the Manti sees targets off to the side of the coil  better then any other VLF I've used... must be that extra power lol. 

strick 

[GB_Amateur]

One thing I don't recall being discussed, at least not as I'm describing it, is 2d/3d location by triangulation.  As the coil moves from one side to the other over a target it would use the target signal strength vs. known magnetic field to figure out how deep a target is as well as where it's located left-right.  It might even be possible to get the other direction (frontward-backward).

Another thought -- something that has been done (e.g. White's Vision/V3 family) but isn't on any of the recently released models -- is a histogram of target VDI.  This shows a visual peak for the VDI's with the most hits during a swing/investigation.  Do any of the BBS/FBS/FBS2 detectors have this?

[Chase Goldman]

58 minutes ago, GB_Amateur said:

One thing I don't recall being discussed, at least not as I'm describing it, is 2d/3d location by triangulation.  As the coil moves from one side to the other over a target it would use the target signal strength vs. known magnetic field to figure out how deep a target is as well as where it's located left-right.  It might even be possible to get the other direction (frontward-backward).

Another thought -- something that has been done (e.g. White's Vision/V3 family) but isn't on any of the recently released models -- is a histogram of target VDI.  This shows a visual peak for the VDI's with the most hits during a swing/investigation.  Do any of the BBS/FBS/FBS2 detectors have this?

Interesting, but pretty sure it needs an inertial/gyro sensor in the coil to "know" which direction it is being swung to do what you are suggesting and how does it ascertain the true footprint of the target to compare to the baseline "known" coil magnetic field to differentiate a small shallow target vs. a deep big target?  The primary coil field on a DD is pretty narrow.  Perhaps coil edge effects and coil tilt angle data can be used?  The new Quest V80 has a gyro sensor to help with auto GB (senses the operator pumping the coil with no need to hit a button to initiate the GB sequence) and to turn off the detector when not in use.  Does the Manticore coil have such a sensor?  

From what I can tell, the horizontal (CO componet) and Vertical (FE component) smudge of a variable TID target on the 2D display sort of gives you information akin to the TID histogram feature you are describing but not exactly.  The bigger the trace area the more uncertainty in the TID, but you don't really get a relative feel for the TID with most hits unless that is related to how dark the trace is displayed with the lower occurring "fringe" TIDs appearing as lighter ghost shades.  But someone who actually has the machine can comment more intelligently than me.

Speaking of coil position and swing sensing, it would be great to have a system that takes coil position and swing direction/amplitude data and overlay that on a site grid to determine site coil coverage so that you can focus subsequent surveys on areas that have coverage gaps.

[GB_Amateur]

42 minutes ago, Chase Goldman said:

The primary coil field on a DD is pretty narrow.

I think in terms of mono coils, whose magnetic fields are more easily imaginged.  I think concentrics are similar.  DD's -- different story?  My idea is that as a function of time the detectors 'sees' a serious of signal strengths:  S(t1), S(t2),...S(tn).  These signal strengths depend upon location within the magentic field as well as the properties of the target (where the eddy currents are generated).  (I'm thinking the eddy current generation is itself a function of both time and field strength).  The idea I have is that this series of signals, with knowledge of the mag field, can be inverted to get a position.  I'm also thinking simply -- one target in the zone of sensitivity, no mineralization or at least extremely uniform mineralization, etc.  Might be too ideal....

49 minutes ago, Chase Goldman said:

From what I can tell, the horizontal (CO componet) and Vertical (FE component) smudge of a variable TID target on the 2D display sort of gives you information akin to the TID histogram feature you are describing but not exactly.  The bigger the trace area the more uncertainty in the TID, but you don't really get a relative feel for the TID with most hits unless that is related to how dark the trace is displayed with the lower occurring "fringe" TIDs appearing as lighter ghost shades.  But someone who actually has the machine can comment more intelligently than me.

Yes, the screen shows a series of hits in the Ferrous-Conductivity 2-dimensional space.  So if, for example, more than one sample have the same FE-CO pair, that 'pixel' of the screen will be darker.  ML *could*(?) even color code this intensity but currently that's not done.  What I'm wanting (and what the White's Vision family did, I think) is to take a slice in the CO-intensity 2-dimensional space and show that.  On the Manticore that intensity can be thought of as a 3rd dimension which currently shows up as a light(er) or dark(er) 'pixel'.  But maybe color coding would be even better -- a kind of contour plot.  Good idea, Chase!

[Ringtail]

On 3/13/2023 at 12:18 PM, GB_Amateur said:

Another thought -- something that has been done (e.g. White's Vision/V3 family) but isn't on any of the recently released models -- is a histogram of target VDI.  This shows a visual peak for the VDI's with the most hits during a swing/investigation.  Do any of the BBS/FBS/FBS2 detectors have this?

Speaking of the V3i, that detector had a full color display and could display different color for each frequency. My favorite display more was a bar graph. It was easy to tell the difference between brass and aluminum even with the same VDI number by which frequency responded with the highest bar. Don’t get me wrong, the Manticore will pick up targets that the V3i would have missed. However, I waste a lot of time digging aluminum. The technology exists to display which frequency provides the strongest response. If the manticore would display this info, it would give us a much better ability to identify the type of metal before we dig.

Ringtail 

 

[Ringtail]

Here’s a photo of the V3i display, the green is 2.5 kHz, red is 7.5 kHz, blue is 22.5. This is extremely useful info, why can’t we get this on modern detectors? Whites is out of busines, but I guess it’s possible that Garrett now owns the patents.

Ringtail