Not Much Interest In USA Units Lately

[Jeff McClendon]

Companies like Minelab, Nokta and XP (don't know much about Rutus and no one that I know of sells them in the US) have made the leap and investment to produce VLF detectors that: can handle most terrain, most soils, most beach conditions, are waterproof, have wireless audio, simultaneous multi frequency with selectable single frequency, are lightweight, can be used by beginners to experts of any sex, size or strength and these detectors will work just about anywhere on a wide range of target sizes and conductivities. If that is polishing the cannonball, okay.

Maybe I am in the USA minority, but for me that is also getting good quality detectors into the hands of intermediate to expert level detector users that needed better detector performance and features in just ONE detector so that I don't have to own half a dozen USA brand detectors to remotely try to equal the versatility of that one detector.

I am crazy enough to currently own four of those "do it all really well" SMF detectors that I can quickly switch into selectable single frequency if I need to. Some of these like the Minelab Equinox 600, 700, Nokta Legend and XP Deus 2 Lite are very affordable compared to the prices being charged for new Garrett and FTP intermediate to expert level detectors that don't come anywhere close to those being offered by Minelab, Nokta and XP when it comes to features and performance at least where I live. The USA detector currently being produced that remotely comes close to that kind of versatility and performance is the Garrett APEX and as much as I like that detector's concept, it is not an intermediate to expert level detector for really tough inland conditions and it's not waterproof.

I would love to still own a Whites MXT, MX5, MX7, MX Sport, DFX, V3i, Fisher F75 or F19, Garrett AT series and some Tesoros. However, I would never use those detectors just like I would never use a Minelab X-Terra 705, Nokta Racer 2, Multi Kruzer, Anfibio or a Deus 1 anymore. I can't afford to own detectors that I will not use and I don't want to keep a detector museum in my home.

[Chase Goldman]

1 hour ago, Jeff McClendon said:

If that is polishing the cannonball, okay.

You make valid points about advances in machine versatility and I too would not pull out my MXT or F75 (I still have them collecting dust) instead of my D2, Nox, or Legend, either.  But that cannonball comment was in the context of fundamental detecting technology advancements (the detection technology principle), so yes, I stand by it.  In that context, my view is that we are basically squeezing what little juice is left in the induction balance principle base technology that is the basis for hobby discriminating metal detectors. 

I honestly have not seen anything progress significantly other than bells and whistles and price points after Equinox was introduced 5 years ago.  What Equinox brought to the table was incredible versatility vs. raw capability (a true all terrain, all situation detector that performed just about as well as any other detector out there) at an affordable price point.  It ushered out the era of specialized niche detectors for hot dirt, gold, and salt water.  But there was nothing really new in detecting technology other than a further refined iteration on SMF (been around for decades) and finally taking advantage of processing speed and embedded signal processing and user interface capabilities that have been present in phones and personal computing devices for a decade or more.  Oh and manufacturers seem to be paying more attention to ergonomics.

Since then we have had Garrett attempt an entry level SMF that was barely a blip on the radar screen.  Legend which is just an iteration on Nox with affordability that, yes, makes it more accessible to the casual detectorist, and Deus 2 which is a hybrid of the Nox and Deus 1 that is still outdone by Nox in some respects.  Manticore is also just an incremental evolution of Nox, to be honest.  The advances have been mainly cost, terrain versatility, user interface enhancements, and ergonomics, not necessarily a step change in capability or fundamental technology.  

So with respect to recovering targets with the classics like the MXT and F75, experts with those machines still can hold their own against the Manticores of this world on nominal terrain.  Sure, there is some hot ground and wet salt sand advantages to the latest machines vs. the Fisher and Whites standard bearers but again, that's improved versatility and reducing the need for specialized machines like PI's, Gold Monsters, eTracs, and Excals. 

Yes, we need fewer "specialized" detectors now, and that's a good thing.  But if you are a long-time detectorists with a classic machine primarily looking for spread targets in mild soil which is the norm rather than the exception in the US, the case for upgrading from an MXT or F75 is not necessarily there.  In other words, if Nox or Legend or even Apex did not sway you, what will Garrett do to make a dent now that the market is saturated with 4 generations of Minelab Multi-IQ machines, a dirt cheep selectable frequency machine, the Legend, a forthcoming Quest, and the higher end Deus 2 and Manticores.  In other words, how does Garrett make a splash with the holdouts who have not seen the need to upgrade from an F75, MXT, or AT Max over the past 3 to 5 years?

[Chase Goldman]

3 hours ago, The Pest said:

I think that American detector manufacturers should quit outsourcing their production before they try too hard to compete

Garrett does not outsource production.  Don't know about First Texas.

FWIW - Minelab (Australia) outsources production to Malaysia.

[phrunt]

He's right though, the clones available are mostly all First Texas and Whites machines along with the Ace series, they're in abundance on the clone market, why? probably because they've been on the market so long as current detectors it was viable to spend the money to duplicate them, the fact they're simpler electronics to copy too probably helped.   If you keep making new models the clones of them go out of date making them less appealing to clone, there are X-terra 705 clones but they are more recent on the market and relatively pointless as Minelab discontinued it not long after the clones first appeared from what I saw.

I'm not sure why they cloned the Ace series and not the AT Series Garrett's, perhaps some sort of encryption in the software as they've certainly been on the market long enough to make them viable to clone.

[GB_Amateur]

2 hours ago, Chase Goldman said:

So with respect to recovering targets with the classics like the MXT and F75, experts with those machines still can hold their own against the Manticores of this world on nominal terrain.

I think that last qualification is very important, and it's not just the Culpeper, Virginia hot dirt and Northern California serpentine that distinguish tough ground vs. Florida peninsula beach sand vs. everywhere else.  I don't live in the mountains nor in a metal ore rich area but it absolutely matters when a small coin (95% copper penny, 25% Ni 5-center, silver dime) gets about 5" deep when comparing VDI on the F75 vs. the better multifrequency detectors that you mention.  I'm not talking about changing a few VDI numbers, I'm talking going from non-ferrous to ferrous VDI and tones. or at least a mixture of those two, soon (another inch) to be simply ferrous.

[Chase Goldman]

17 minutes ago, GB_Amateur said:

I think that last qualification is very important, and it's not just the Culpeper, Virginia hot dirt and Northern California serpentine that distinguish tough ground vs. Florida peninsula beach sand vs. everywhere else.  I don't live in the mountains nor in a metal ore rich area but it absolutely matters when a small coin (95% copper penny, 25% Ni 5-center, silver dime) gets about 5" deep when comparing VDI on the F75 vs. the better multifrequency detectors that you mention.  I'm not talking about changing a few VDI numbers, I'm talking going from non-ferrous to ferrous VDI and tones. or at least a mixture of those two, soon (another inch) to be simply ferrous.

To that point regarding TID, Chuck, you can also see where things take take a step backwards even when we think we are moving forward.  Reference the TID stability issues that have been noted on the Nox 700/900 compared to the Nox 600/800 and even Manticore is wrangling with TID stability to a certain degree.  This probably just illustrates the "no free lunch" adage as Minelab opened up the TID scale to provide better mid-conductivity target ID differentiation, but so far, it has come with a cost - less TID stability overall.

[Joe D.]

5 hours ago, Jeff McClendon said:

I can't afford to own detectors that I will not use and I don't want to keep a detector museum in my home.

  That's OK Jeff, you can visit mine, or better yet, Simon's!! I was just saying to someone that I like old, dusty detectors, with no warranty!!🤣👍👍

[GB_Amateur]

1 hour ago, Chase Goldman said:

To that point regarding TID, Chuck, you can also see where things take take a step backwards even when we think we are moving forward.  Reference the TID stability issues that have been noted on the Nox 700/900 compared to the Nox 600/800 and even Manticore is wrangling with TID stability to a certain degree.  (Emphasis mine)

I can't and won't comment on the 900/700, not having ever had my hands on one nor do I plan to for long enough to reach a conclusive, independent view.  In addition I'm far from reaching conclusions with the Manticore and refuse to be dragged into an argument with people who have too few hours with theirs while I await the hundred(s) of hours it's going to take me to reach that conclusion.  (If someone chooses to take that any way but literally s/he is way off base.  I don't typically reach conclusions easily, with good reason.)

It's interesting that when the Equinox 800/600 came out, and for quite a while after that, some people were complaining about too few target ID channels leading them to have to dig trash which they thought should have been separable from their favorite targets.  I'm not pointing a hypocritical finger as am willing to assume that these two groups are on opposite sides of the fence.  My point is in line with that common statement "you can please some of the people some of the time..."

[KD8GIS]

Steve H..... "White's is long gone as is Tesoro so their models (don't matter anymore) going forward".... Yet Steve Owns and speaks highly of a White's DFX.   I like the forum, Seems many White's owners are quick to point out their pride in their White's detectors.  Long gone?  I see White's detectors (Old) being sold for some high prices.  It seems like there's some dealers on here which are quick to be rid of past and sell the future.  My 40+ years of White's may be influencing my opinions. 

Times have changed, 40 years ago about the only introduction to metal detecting is seeing someone detecting and walking up to talk to them.  Social media, Youtube, and others are selling the "Dreams"  We who have been around for decades see the hype being put out there to sell detectors.  Looking at todays' forums the "experts", are doing great work for the manufactures and dealers. I do suspect there's some old timers out there who don't even look at the forums.  My rants may not be welcome, but I took exception to "Long gone" "don't matter anymore"

[blackjack]

On 5/2/2023 at 6:46 AM, Digalicious said:

...or the seemingly newer trend of not wearing gold or diamonds, but wearing no jewelry, or alternatives / replicas that look just as good, at a fraction of the cost. Then the fact that circulating silver coins haven't been in production for about the last 60 years, get more and more out of detection range, and most people now carry little to no pocket change

 

Nailed It