Just Curious?

[Zaj56]

If a Minelab detetcor is sent in for warranty repair,can they determine how many hours the machine was used? I ask this because when I visit Miracle ear to have my hearing aids serviced they can tell exactly how many hours that I've worn them. It would be nice to have an hour meter.

[GotAU?]

2 hours ago, Zaj56 said:

If a Minelab detetcor is sent in for warranty repair,can they determine how many hours the machine was used? I ask this because when I visit Miracle ear to have my hearing aids serviced they can tell exactly how many hours that I've worn them. It would be nice to have an hour meter.

I doubt it - Minelab just uses date of original purchase for warranty and does not use how much time was put on the unit for validity of a warranty.  If you are looking for a used one and want to verify how much it was used, look at the front display screen buttons for wear, the tightness of the battery latch, scratches or wear on the bottom and feet of the main unit, and the condition of the audio and main coil cord jacks.  Do the jacks seem loose or dirty inside? Check the audio and see if it sounds scratchy, especially on the older units that have volume control knobs. Are the membrane buttons pressed in, have scratches and look worn out? Don’t count on easily replaceable items like new looking coil skid plates, coils and shafts to determine how much time a unit has been used.

[markinswpa]

I agree, an hour meter would be nice. However it could be a kinda of double edged sword. Yes when buying used, knowing how much  it has been used could help determine price provided the machine doesn't appear to be beat. Additionally it could tell you your exact swing time. But on the other hand say a machine has a tendency to malfunction or brake down at a certain hour mark, this could kill resale value. And any sale of used electronics is always a pig in a poke. I would like to see a mineralization meter on Minelabs.

[Zaj56]

  I hunted darn near everyday last year and would love to know how many actual hours I put in. Mark,,what exactly do you mean by a mineralization meter?

[Chase Goldman]

On 7/5/2023 at 7:31 AM, Zaj56 said:

  I hunted darn near everyday last year and would love to know how many actual hours I put in. Mark,,what exactly do you mean by a mineralization meter?

A mineralization meter tells you how much magnetite or other similar ferrous oxide compounds are in the soil.  The ground balance indication on most detectors is really just a number generated to help a user properly balance out ground phase (conductivity).  It does not necessarily correlate to the degree of ferrous mineralization present in the soil.  Even if you have a properly ground balanced detector, highly mineralized soil (often referred to as "hot ground") reflects and attenuates the magnetic field that is put into the ground by the detector's transmit coil as well as the received induced magnetic field by the target which greatly reduces depth capability.  Many detectors such as the higher end Fisher and Teknetics models; XP Deus, Orx, and Deus 2; Nokta Simplex and Legend, provide a separate mineralization meter.  Minelabs tend to not have this indication although the Nox internal algorithms use sensed changes in ground mineralization as keys to adjust ground balance in ground tracking mode and also sense it in Beach Modes to automatically dial back transmit power in the presence of black sand.

Having a separate indication of ground mineralization helps the detectorist identify this hot ground situation so that they can adjust the detector to compensate somewhat for its effects. 

For example, DD coils are slightly less impacted by mineralization than coaxial or concentric coils, so a detectorist might choose to use a DD coil in this situation (most detectors have now gravitated to solely using DD coils so this is typically a moot point). 

Choosing a coil with a smaller footprint can also help mitigate hot ground feedback effects, which means you should avoid using large footprint coils as they are counterproductive in these conditions, i.e., you will likely not gain any depth advantage as overall target sensitivity will take a hit for the reasons mentioned above and you will certainly lose small target sensitivity and you take an unnecessary weight penalty (applies only to induction balance vlf detectors, as discussed below Pulse Induction detectors are somewhat immune to these effects so you can gain depth in hot dirt with larger coil footprints).

Lowering transmit power (if you have that adjustment) sometimes helps.  If you can separately adjust for salt effects (usually a beach mode adjustment) that can sometimes help too. 

And certain frequencies may penetrate better (usually lower frequencies, but there is no hard and fast determination that lowering the frequency is necessarily always better in hot ground > a lot depends on your desired target conductivity). 

A lot of trial and error is involved.  In really hot soils, shifting to a Pulse Induction detector is the best antidote as mineralization has much less impact on depth detection due to the way they transmit and process their received target signals.  There are other drawbacks to Pulse Induction detectors (expense, lack of sophisticated visual target ID and discrimination) and they are primarily used for gold prospecting, beach work, or for relic detecting in hot and/or high salinity ground environments.

HTH

[markinswpa]

On 7/5/2023 at 8:09 AM, Chase Goldman said:

A mineralization meter tells you how much magnetite or other similar ferrous oxide compounds are in the soil.  The ground balance indication on most detectors is really just a number generated to help a user properly balance out ground phase (conductivity).  It does not necessarily correlate to the degree of ferrous mineralization present in the soil.  Even if you have a properly ground balanced detector, highly mineralized soil (often referred to as "hot ground") reflects and attenuates the magnetic field that is put into the ground by the detector's transmit coil as well as the received induced magnetic field by the target which greatly reduces depth capability.  Many detectors such as the higher end Fisher and Teknetics models; XP Deus, Orx, and Deus 2; Nokta Simplex and Legend, provide a separate mineralization meter.  Minelabs tend to not have this indication although the Nox internal algorithms use sensed changes in ground mineralization as keys to adjust ground balance in ground tracking mode and also sense it in Beach Modes to automatically dial back transmit power in the presence of black sand.

Having a separate indication of ground mineralization helps the detectorist identify this hot ground situation so that they can adjust the detector to compensate somewhat for its effects.  For example, DD coils are slightly less impacted by mineralization than coaxial or concentric coils, so a detectorist might choose to use a DD coil in this situation (most detectors have now gravitated to solely using DD coils sobthiscis typically a moot point).  Lowering transmit power (if you have that adjustment) sometimes helps.  If you can separately adjust for salt effects (usually a beach mode adjustment) that can sometimes help too.  And certain frequencies may penetrate better (usually lower frequencies, but there is no hard and fast determination that lowering the frequency is necessarily always better in hot ground > a lot depends on your desired target conductivity).  A lot of trial and error is involved.  In really hot soils, shifting to a Pulse Induction detector is the best antidote as mineralization has much less impact on depth detection due to the way they transmit and process their received target signals.  There are other drawbacks to Pulse Induction detectors (expense, lack of sophisticated visual target ID and discrimination) and they are primarily used for gold prospecting, beach work, or for relic detecting in hot and/or high salinity ground environments.

HTH

Wow Chase thanks. You explained  that way better than I could. Even learned a few things myself. Thats why I like these forums, so many knowledgeable members willing to help. Take care. Mark

[JCR]

A consummate explanation. This should go in a DP Forum Glossary.

[phrunt]

Yes, the forum should have a "post of the week" section where the best post each week is cataloged, some good posts are buried away in sections only some people read but would benefit from reading, a post of the week section would consolidate these good posts in a spot where everyone could check it out.  A bit of work, but I think would have a bit of interest.

[Chase Goldman]

6 hours ago, JCR said:

A consummate explanation. This should go in a DP Forum Glossary.

 

2 hours ago, phrunt said:

Yes, the forum should have a "post of the week" section where the best post each week is cataloged, some good posts are buried away in sections only some people read but would benefit from reading, a post of the week section would consolidate these good posts in a spot where everyone could check it out.  A bit of work, but I think would have a bit of interest.

Yes.  I had this thought as well.  An index where general detecting knowledge items and nuggets  can be collected and saved for reference.  A DP Knowledge Base Section. This already exists in some respects in Steve's site with respect to his Guides and Detector Database.  But perhaps a wiki style that enables crowd-sourced contributions from forum members to be collected and indexed.  Or perhaps "Chat DPT" ("Detector Prospector Tidbits").

Example Topics:

Wireless Audio Technologies

How to Secure Site Permissions

How to Maximize Site Coverage (Gridding and Tracking Techniques and Tools)

Use of Online Tools to Research Site History and Geographic Features

The Difference Between Induction Balance and Pulse Induction Detectors

How Coils Work

Lithium Battery Do's and Don'ts  

and so forth.

I'll discuss with Steve.

Thanks for the nudge.

[JCR]

Excellent idea to take what is certainly the most informative, useful and congenial Forum out there even better.