New Untouched Colonial Homestead

[Mark Gillespie]

speechless!

 

[NJ Art]

14 hours ago, Lodge Scent said:

WOW! I'd wear off the features of that coin because I would be fondling it so much. 

Right.? When I walked over and he held out the Liberty I stopped breathing it was stunning, the nicest coin coming out of the ground in my 23 years of detecting.

[relicmeister]

Beautiful- good for you finding untouched Colonial homesite. Always on my mind while scoping new areas. I have come across exactly two untouched colonial sites in my 12 years of detecting and long for the day I stumble across another. I’d fall into a tick infested pit to find my next. I’m assuming your site was in NJ?   Mine were in far North Jersey. 
   Your experience is what it’s all about.  Are you still finding relics there? 

[deathray]

As good as it gets dude!

[NJ Art]

2 hours ago, relicmeister said:

Beautiful- good for you finding untouched Colonial homesite. Always on my mind while scoping new areas. I have come across exactly two untouched colonial sites in my 12 years of detecting and long for the day I stumble across another. I’d fall into a tick infested pit to find my next. I’m assuming your site was in NJ?   Mine were in far North Jersey. 
   Your experience is what it’s all about.  Are you still finding relics there? 

This was my 5th untouched. Jumping into a tick infested pit seems very fair. Last year I went scouting about this time of the year and my clothes were covered within a few strides through the trail briers along with the slowpokes were these small little slick sprinters I'm talking tiny and fast. Yes my site is in New Jersey. The signals dried up the past few days, the ground is expanding and the moisture is leaving the building it needs a good soaking. Yesterday 3 buttons. Been throwing every machine I have at it and hitting it from every angle. This is my last day on the site untiI we get some rain. Field hunting till the farmers plant then to the beach for the summer.

[NJ Art]

5 minutes ago, deathray said:

As good as it gets dude!

Thank you, it has been one heck of an adrenaline filled ride. 

[GB_Amateur]

On 3/4/2024 at 9:02 AM, NJ Art said:

Here they be. My buddy is sending them out to get graded.

Due to the site reset to March 30, some meaningful posts in this thread were deleted.  I'm restoring one of mine (the only post I saved for this lost time period) as I think these finds are too important to be ignored.  These two early USA Large Cents are among the best if not outright the best metal detector finds I've ever seen reported here.  It goes to show "they're still out there" but also emphasizes how important it is not to clean coin finds until their value is determined.

First, here are the professional grading service conclusions which NJArt reported for these two coins:

Now I repost something I wrote up a couple months back which was lost in the website rebuild:

I'm going the extra distance here to provide some (unsolicited) advice.  Given that I'm not a numismatic professional your friend should take this with a grain of salt.  However I hope he reads it over and give it some consideration.  Let's start with the playing field.

0) Most of what I'm going to relate is from Q. David Bowers's A Guide Book of Half Cents and Large Cents.  I suggest your friend get a copy and read the relevant pages to get an idea of the richness of the collecting market for early dates, particularly his 1794.  There are 37 pages on that dated coin alone.

1) Professional grading ('Certification') has a huge amount of clout, especially when done by either NGC or PCGS.  Unfortunately coins found in the ground, particularly those with high copper content, fall into a category of "environmental damage".  That's a broad brush stroke and although it is a strike against a coin (and its value, generally) with this designation, it's not as bad as many perceive IF the coin is rare.  And the good news is your friend's coins are rare due to their condition.  (More on this below.)

2) The accepted mintage for this year is 918,521 -- by itself not impressive.  However, in general and particularly true then, coins were minted for one reason and that is to be circulated for commerce.  As such the survival population is much less.  According to Bowers's listing of 65 (my count) known 1794 die varieties, somewhere in the 25,000 to 35,000 range (my count) survive.  Even that number isn't particularly impressive.  Keep in mind the vast majority of those are in much lower grade than your friend's, though.  Quoting Bowers:  The appeal that 1794 Cents possess has prompted hours of discussion among collectors of the series and has motivated otherwise busy individuals to travel tens of thousands of miles, write innumerable letters, and spend tens of thousands of dollars in their quest for needed varieties.  ...There seems to be a special aura surrounding the pieces, a quality which has aroused a fierce desire on the part of those who lack certain varieties and a pride of possession for those who own them.  (emphasis mine)

3) Regarding rarity, this quote from Bowers drives home the point:  Most 1794 cents show extensive wear, with typical grades ranging from Good to Fine.  In proportion to demand, VF examples are scarce, EF coins are rare, and AU coins are rarer yet.  (Emphasis mine.  Note:  EF and XF are used interchangeably, standing for the "Extremely Fine" grade.)

OK, now to the specifics of your friend's two specimens.  Let's start with line 1 in the report -- S-62 (Sheldon variety 62) in XF condition.  Bowers estimates only 75 to 125 of this variety still exists in all grades.  Further, I quote:  This variety is known from EF to Mint State, but is a rarity at any high level.  In other words, the number of survivors in the highest grades (EF and above) is far less than the 75 to 125 estimate.  Yep, we're talking rarified air.

On to line 2 of the report.  This one is more vague but that translates 'more intriguing'.  There is no die specification, but the grade is even higher:  "AU details".  That alone is pushing this coin further upwards into the atmosphere.  But why no die designation?  I can only speculate.  It could be they just didn't want to take the time to figure it out.  (The other specimen was easy -- even I was able to recognize it back when you first showed a photo.)  But another possibility is that it's not one of the more common varieties (for example, Bowers lists four with estimates of 'thousands').  They may have even been afraid to specify if it appeared to fall into one of the most rare die variety categories.  Possibly the dirt (did they do any cleaning?) obscured some details that would otherwise have allowed them to make a confident ID.  Could it even be an undiscovered die variety?  According to Bowers's book (written in 2014):  New discoveries are constantly being made.

In terms of value, this is tough because of the 'environmental damage' label.  However, as I've been emphasizing, rarity can be forgiving of that 'scarlet letter'.  IMO, your friend should not even consider selling this second coin before getting its variety determined by an expert (a greater expert than the person who graded the coin at the certification service).  So how do you find such an expert?  First off, the local coin shop is unlikely to be able to help.  The topic of die varieties is not the typical concern -- far from it.  Sometimes they'll even denigrate a coin rather than to admit they aren't knowledgeable enough to provide the information needed.

The right person is very likely a member of the (somewhat) exclusive Professional Numismatics Guild (PNG).  You can search their site for a member near you who specializes in US coins.  Even if s/he isn't a specialist in early large cents s/he should be able to advise on how to find such a person, possibly even recommending one.

Addendum:  I spent quite some time scouring photos both in Bowers's book but also the very high resolutions ones at PCGS.  I could not find any die variety listed in Bowers's book (published in 2014 and showing all varieties known at that time) that matched both obverse and reverse of the second coin shown above.  In other words, my conclusion is that this is likely an unknown die variety.  Given the enthusiastic collector interest for die varieties of this coin, if I'm right (not close to a certainty) that makes this find over-the-top in its meaningfulness to the numismatic community.

 

[GB_Amateur]

Well, the latest rollback caused a recent post of mine here to get lost.  (Not pointing fingers.  Things happen.  Steve H. is working diligently to get these hiccups eliminated for good.)  But there was some useful info I think deserves reposting, so here goes:

In review, the grading service (NJ Art never said which one but hopefully it was either PCGS or NGC) failed to give a die designation for the AU coin, unlike the other (XF Cent) where it was stated to be S-62 (Sheldon 62).  So how to proceed?  Resubmitting to a grading service, either the same one or a different one, probably is not the best route.  They had their chance and chose not to give a designation.  I don't think they will change their report, but keep in mind that's just my opinion.

There is a very active collector group which specializes in early USA copper coins (Large Cents and Half Cents) -- Early American Coppers (EACS).  My suggestion is to contact them (they have a "Contact Us" drop-down page on the webite I just linked).  I would keep it short but detailed enough to fuel their interest.  In particularly include a photo (if that submission page allows photos) of the coin similar as to what was shown earlier in this thread.  Include a brief snapshot/report of the grading/certification's conclusions.  Mention that this was found recently with a metal detector in a suspected(?) Colonial Site.  Besides providing contact info, that should be enough to peak interest.  Worth a try, IMO.  My hunch is that this will generate replies, including possibly an expert conclusion (or how to get one) on the Sheldon number (if it can be recognized as a known die pair variety) or even better yet, if it happens to be an unknown variety.

[NJ Art]

23 hours ago, GB_Amateur said:

Well, the latest rollback caused a recent post of mine here to get lost.  (Not pointing fingers.  Things happen.  Steve H. is working diligently to get these hiccups eliminated for good.)  But there was some useful info I think deserves reposting, so here goes:

In review, the grading service (NJ Art never said which one but hopefully it was either PCGS or NGC) failed to give a die designation for the AU coin, unlike the other (XF Cent) where it was stated to be S-62 (Sheldon 62).  So how to proceed?  Resubmitting to a grading service, either the same one or a different one, probably is not the best route.  They had their chance and chose not to give a designation.  I don't think they will change their report, but keep in mind that's just my opinion.

There is a very active collector group which specializes in early USA copper coins (Large Cents and Half Cents) -- Early American Coppers (EACS).  My suggestion is to contact them (they have a "Contact Us" drop-down page on the webite I just linked).  I would keep it short but detailed enough to fuel their interest.  In particularly include a photo (if that submission page allows photos) of the coin similar as to what was shown earlier in this thread.  Include a brief snapshot/report of the grading/certification's conclusions.  Mention that this was found recently with a metal detector in a suspected(?) Colonial Site.  Besides providing contact info, that should be enough to peak interest.  Worth a try, IMO.  My hunch is that this will generate replies, including possibly an expert conclusion (or how to get one) on the Sheldon number (if it can be recognized as a known die pair variety) or even better yet, if it happens to be an unknown variety.

Thanks again Chuck. I will relay info.