The Trolls Are Winning?

[Steve Herschbach]

When the internet first got going with the early metal detector forums in the late 90s and early 2000s, it was a different place. Basically a community of like minded people helping each other out and sharing fun finds, etc. As social media has advanced however things have taken a darker turn. There now exists a class of eyeball seeker that caters to people’s less desirable side, getting attention by attacking anyone and everything. Attacking things is now equated with being a truth teller, since you are saying things most people will not say. The problem is truth often has nothing to do with it. It’s just pushing people’s buttons to engage eyeballs more often than not. Controversy sells.

The downside is happening quietly. There are many very knowledgeable people in this industry that would be happy to engage and share information. Or would be, were it not for the trolls and negative tone so prevalent now. Say anything nice and you get attacked as a shill or worse. Or have to argue with people who think their uneducated opinions somehow are real knowledge. A lot of good people I know who used to post or who currently post are going away. This includes many of the most knowledgeable people in the industry.

People say a person should just have a thicker skin, ignore the trolls, etc. Yet why should a decent person who knows a lot have to endure hateful comments just to try to share and help people? Might it not be easier to not comment at all, leave the field entirely, and let the trolls win? I’m here to tell you it’s happening, has been happening for some time now.

The Garrett Vortex really brings this top of mind for me. I somewhat grudgingly accepted one to provide some feedback and thoughts to Garrett. Years ago I would have jumped on the chance to have early information to share with people. Now, I honestly don’t want to get involved. The hatred and vitriol being dumped on this machine before it has even shipped has reached new lows. Now, many would say that Garrett only has themselves to blame, with the huge drip tease buildup fueling people’s expectations to unrealistic highs. There is some truth in that. I think they would have been better served to say little and quietly announce the detector when it was ready to ship. The attacks now are vicious enough however (everyone involved should be fired, fired, fired!!) that blaming Garrett is blaming the victim to excuse the attackers.

Some people have even seized on the fact Garrett is still tweaking the machine as evidence of ill intent on Garrett’s part. News flash - every detector from every company I’ve worked with in the last 20 years was tweaked up until the day it shipped, and for a year or more after. Was Nokta ripping people off selling the original Legend and then updating it constantly ever since? Was the original shipping model just an unfinished prototype? No, I’m not saying that at all but that is the argument being put forth now about the Vortex. Some want to line up feature lists, and point out the Nokta Score has a longer list yet sells for less. Another news flash - not everyone wants a mile long set of adjustments, some people just want a detector that works well with minimal fuss. And gee, what about actually using something before saying it’s junk? Not today, not in the current environment.

The worst part at this point is anyone being fair to the Vortex and saying anything nice about it is going to get thrown under a bus. You either get on board the hate wagon or get run over by it.

I have no real reason for posting this I guess. Things will not change except to get worse. I sure do not want this thread to be people naming names and calling out anyone in particular. That’s not my goal - please don’t do it. I guess I’m just a little sad about it all, maybe looking to commiserate a little on the state of affairs. Not about specific people but just the overall decline in civility. It’s taken some of the fun I used to have getting a new detector away from me and I’m mourning that a little.

 

 

[Geotech]

100% correct. I think that computers, and now social media, have brought out the worst in people. It's too easy to sit behind a keyboard and say things you would never say to someone's face. And that should be what governs what you write: would you say that in a face-to-face conversation?

All of this makes running a forum difficult as you have to balance allowing people to say what they want to say, with tempering the amount of negativity that can drive good people away. Geotech is even worse than DP in that respect as I have to maintain a reasonably peaceful atmosphere with people who would probably rather kill each other in real life. I remind them that if you don't like someone, the forum has an Ignore feature. This one does, too.

[Noah (FL)]

It’s sad but unfortunately true.
Seems like the algorithms are keeping the trolls up front and center.

I couldn’t imagine trying to run a business like Garrett’s social media. A good long time family business trying to keep a decent appearance while the trolls wage a full on hateful attack on their social media. 

The potential the internet brought for sharing knowledge and widening people’s horizons with access to others all around the world has quickly become a three ring circus of trolls, influencers and divisive polarization.  
The good parts are still there you just have to keep the blinders on to stay on track while wading through the dark parts.  

Thanks for dealing with all the 💩 it takes to keep this forum going Steve!!  

[abenson]

Well said Steve. Pretty much agree with all that's been said so far. I don't mind when people give their opinion and a friendly conversation materializes. But, when they all out attack another person or company with uneducated comments it does no good for all involved.

[DSMITH]

1 hour ago, Steve Herschbach said:

When the internet first got going with the early metal detector forums in the late 90s and early 2000s, it was a different place. Basically a community of like minded people helping each other out and sharing fun finds, etc. As social media has advanced however things have taken a darker turn. There now exists a class of eyeball seeker that caters to people’s less desirable side, getting attention by attacking anyone and everything. Attacking things is now equated with being a truth teller, since you are saying things most people will not say. The problem is truth often has nothing to do with it. It’s just pushing people’s buttons to engage eyeballs more often than not. Controversy sells.

The downside is happening quietly. There are many very knowledgeable people in this industry that would be happy to engage and share information. Or would be, were it not for the trolls and negative tone so prevalent now. Say anything nice and you get attacked as a shill or worse. Or have to argue with people who think their uneducated opinions somehow are real knowledge. A lot of good people I know who used to post or who currently post are going away. This includes many of the most knowledgeable people in the industry.

People say a person should just have a thicker skin, ignore the trolls, etc. Yet why should a decent person who knows a lot have to endure hateful comments just to try and share and help people? Might it not be easier to not comment at all, leave the field entirely, and let the trolls win? I’m here to tell you it’s happening, has been happening for some time now.

The Garrett Vortex really brings this top of mind for me. I somewhat grudgingly accepted one to provide some feedback and thoughts to Garrett. Years ago I would have jumped on the chance to have early information to share with people. Now, I honestly don’t want to get involved. The hatred and vitriol being dumped on this machine before it has even shipped has reached new lows. Now, many would say that Garrett only has themselves to blame, with the huge drip tease buildup fueling people’s expectations to unrealistic heights. There is some truth in that. I think they would have been better served to say little and just quietly announce the detector when it was ready to ship. The attacks now are viscous enough however that blaming Garrett is blaming the victim to excuse the attackers.

Some people have even seized on the fact Garrett is still tweaking the machine as evidence of ill intent on Garrett’s part. News flash - every detector from every company I’ve worked with in the last 20 years was tweaked up until the day it shipped, and for a year or more after. Was Nokta ripping people off selling the original Legend and then updating it constantly ever since? Was the original shipping model not just an unfinished prototype? No, I’m not saying that, but that is the argument being put forth now about the Vortex. Some want to line up feature lists, and point out the Nokta Score has a longer list yet sells for less. Another news flash - not everyone wants a mile long set of adjustments, some people just want a detector that works well with minimal fuss. And gee, what about actually using something before saying it’s junk? Not today, not in the current environment.

I have no real reason for posting this I guess. Things will not change except to get worse. I sure do not want this thread to be people naming names and calling out anyone in particular. That’s not my goal - please don’t do it. I guess I’m just a little sad about it all is all, maybe looking to commiserate a little on the state of affairs. Not about specific people but just the overall decline in civility. It’s taken some of the fun I used to have getting a new detector away from me and I’m mourning that a little.

You just posted what I have been thinking for quite awhile now @Steve Herschbach ever since the announcement of the Legend, and now with the Vortex, it has become ridiculous and just boggles my mind how people can bad mouth something before ever having it in their hands, (You Cannot Judge A Book By Its cover) comes to my mind and yes it is sad the way the world and people have become, its like the nastier you are the better people like you and to me that is not the way it should be

I agree with everything you just posted in this thread, Thank you for posting it up

[JCR]

I consider this forum to be a relative oasis thanks to not only the membership, but to how it is managed & moderated.

[Steve Herschbach]

1 hour ago, Geotech said:

100% correct. I think that computers, and now social media, have brought out the worst in people. It's too easy to sit behind a keyboard and say things you would never say to someone's face. And that should be what governs what you write: would you say that in a face-to-face conversation?

All of this makes running a forum difficult as you have to balance allowing people to say what they want to say, with tempering the amount of negativity that can drive good people away. Geotech is even worse than DP in that respect as I have to maintain a reasonably peaceful atmosphere with people who would probably rather kill each other in real life. I remind them that if you don't like someone, the forum has an Ignore feature. This one does, too.

I've never considered what it must be like to moderate a forum specifically aimed at nerd geek engineer types. First thought that comes to mind is OMG!!!! 

It depends on the forum prime directive. If you want to cater to brilliant people you have to deal with the idiosyncrasies that come with the territory. This forum on the other hand was founded literally on the basis of what I observed and experienced elsewhere. The prime directive IS civility. What that does mean is that certain personalities do not last long here, and unfortunately some intelligent minds in that group. I tried for some time to make room for everyone and then to ride herd on the results, but frankly I'm just too old and lazy now. Anyone with a flair for causing dissension and controversary is simply not welcome here. If that means if it ends up being just six of us having a nice conversation, I'm good with that. 

[walkerrj]

Steve,

Your Forum is a breath of fresh air compared to any other social media that I am aware of.  Thanks for all your hard work in keeping the Forum up and running.  

[Steve Herschbach]

35 minutes ago, walkerrj said:

Steve,

Your Forum is a breath of fresh air compared to any other social media that I am aware of.  Thanks for all your hard work in keeping the Forum up and running.  

That and a couple good moderators plus a great membership = happiness