Bill (S. CA)

Can someone comment on what exactly were the circumstances of Tesoro going out of business? I seem to recall it was a bit murky but I could be wrong; I though it had something with it being discovered that their building had been sold. Just wondering what happened to their remaining inventory and if they sold their name/designs to another company.

I'll try to have that stick in what's left of my brain. Thanks, buddy.

You beat me to the punch on the CZX, Steve. What a huge disappointment that was. I still don't fully understand why Dave couldn't get it to work.

Mirda, You are exactly right. The code is the issue with the V3i. It would have to be rebuilt using current code and modern processors. A huge investment of time and money if you could even find people to do the work. I can't see Garrett doing this personally. Bill

Jeff, Leave it to you to very succinctly summarize what many of us have found with regard to The Legend vs. the Equinox. Plus you have put the hours in as well. For me, it has been difficult to use The Legend full time not because of its performance but more because of how easy my 800 is to use. Some (or a lot) of that may due to millions of hours I have on it. I will admit that I still get lost in the shortcuts on The Legend. For some reason they just don't stick. One aspect that I would like to touch on is how well balanced The Legend is. With my 800 I have always had to "finger float" the grip and leave my pinkie hanging or the grip angle wears me out. Might just be me. But with The Legend I don't have that problem. I also love how featherweight The Legend is with the new shaft, coil and arm cuff. I do need to get out with my Legend more. Just need some more discipline to stop putting my 800 on the charger automatically every night before I go hunting. it's a hard habit to break. One question for you about nickels: what numbers are you hitting for them with the expanded target ID range? Bill

I agree, Phrunt. But I don't know that these older VLF's are really going to have much impact. What we are finding here on the West Coast, both inland and at the beaches, is that affordable newer tech has taken over. The Equinox, as you know, was the game changer. It opened up high tech at at a relatively low price to anyone who wanted to get into the hobby. That has resulted in our beaches being very overhunted. Where ten years ago you'd just see us regulars on a busy day, now there are teams of guys 24/7. all swinging multi's. On Saturday my buddy Frank and his brother hit a local beach and found seven other hunters there. Every one was swinging a Deus II. In three hours Frank and his brother didn't have a dollar in clad between them. Even the zincs we used to pass over had been scooped up. Same thing inland though high trash I think frustrates the newcomers so you can still do well if you take your time. Again, though, I just don't see cheap VLF's anywhere. I really don't have a clue who is buying them because I sure don't see anyone using them.

Totally agree, Steve. I wish I could peer behind the curtain at Garrett and see what they are up to. I can't imagine that Multi-Flex was a one off. They really have an opportunity to differentiate their multi line from their competitors if they do it right.

Having spent the better part of the last two decades writing up field tests on metal detectors, I have had the opportunity to use a lot of machines. Due to publishing deadlines, timing of receiving the unit, testing/learning the detector and a lot of behind-the-scenes tasks required to get a field test published, it is not the gravy train that a lot of folks think it is. Yes, it can be fun, but it is work. The toughest part on rare occasions was to not have the time to really flush out a new metal detector, especially when other articles and field tests were lining up. While I could get a sense of using the detector and describing its features in the context of a field test, there were times that I really wanted to have more time to get to know a detector. Well now that I am retired from writing up field tests due to Western and Eastern Treasures Magazine ceasing publication at the end of 2022, time has become available to revisit a detector or two. One such case is the Garrett Ace Apex, Garrett’s first multi-frequency detector that was introduced in 2020. I wrote the field test on the Apex for the November 2020 issue of Western and Eastern Treasures and after that was delivered the detector basically sat idle until about 2 months ago. With all the constant buzz about various new multi-frequency detectors, incessant “update” anxiety and the like, I found myself overloaded on the whole multi-frequency side of our hobby. That led me to recall the Apex. I remember that I liked it some, had good luck with it at the beach and decent but not overwhelming success with it inland. After digging the detector out of my garage I put it on the charger and decided to do a little Internet research to see how the Apex had gone over since its introduction. To my surprise, there were very few recent posts and videos. Digging a bit deeper I discovered that Garrett had issued an update on 11/30/2022 that offered several improvements: · Improved overall stability · Faster and more accurate ground balance in saltwater · More accurate pinpointing · More distinctive tones to better differentiate good targets from bad Just like with the Apex itself, this update garnered very little web/forum activity, again a bit of a surprise. I wondered why the Apex, Garrett’s first multi-frequency detector, seemed to have been forgotten, lost in the wake of the multi-frequency whirlwind that hit the industry over the past several years. That led me to this post. Basically, over the course of the last two months I decided to revisit the Apex to see just what it could, and could not do. I would like to make one thing clear before the post. This revisiting of the Apex is of my own doing. It was not requested by Garrett, nor do I, or have I ever, been consulted by them regarding developing or testing of their metal detectors. This post is very simply reflective of my desire to spend more time with the Apex than my field test allowed. For those of you who are interested I’ve attached a copy of my original field test for your reference. Comment if you wish, criticize at your own risk, and no matter what, dear God please don’t ask me what my settings are. Fair enough? Now, let’s revisit the Apex. The Apex Itself What I had forgotten about the Apex is how much I liked its “landscape orientation” control box. Since the industry has gone all in on the pod design common to just about every new detector release, the Garrett approach is one that I find refreshing. The display is nicely arranged, the menus make sense and aren’t buried, and the thumb wheel of control buttons beats any pod set of pushbuttons by a mile. The detector is also very easy to swing and well balanced. The Viper coil is one that I prefer due to it’s blade like configuration. While I have used the larger Reaper coil which does give greater coverage, I do not think you lose much with the Viper. Plus it is lighter. Setup to Detect Given the fact that the Apex is part of the Ace line, there are minimal adjustments compared to higher end detectors. You basically turn on the detector, select a search mode, adjust sensitivity and go. What impressed me about this second tour of the Apex is that this lack of adjustability did not affect performance in my hunting environments at all. Not to mention it made my hunts more enjoyable. Features News flash: the Apex DOES NOT HAVE A BOTTLE CAP REJECT SETTING. NOR DOES IT HAVE AN IRON MASK SETTING. How on earth can you hunt with such a primitive detector? It’s easy thanks to Garrett’s Iron Audio feature. Yes, when you have it on all the time the iron grunting will drive you crazy. SO JUST USE IT SELECTIVELY. On the saltwater beaches, this feature was terrific at identifying suspect signals. When I got jumpy numbers, or overly high numbers, all I had to do was turn on the Iron Audio. If it was iron or a bottlecap it grunted every time. The only time it would get fooled was on those tiny screw caps that you find on airline liquor bottles. The Apex was also the only metal detector that I have ever used that was not fooled by the most insidious of all bottlecaps: the dreaded foil-wrapped cap. They read good on every machine I have used except the Apex. When you hit one with the Apex you will get a high slightly bouncy number and when you tun the Iron Audio on it grunts. I also used this feature in the parks and it worked equally well. I’d also like to comment on target ID on the Apex. I love the old school bars across the top, they are a handy reference. And the Apex’s 1 0 – 99 scale is pretty solid as opposed to other multi’s that I have used where the expanded TID scales result in jumpy numbers. It’s not perfect but I could get pretty consistent numbers with multiple swings over targets. The Beach The Apex is flat out a great saltwater beach detector. This second tour with it confirmed just that. In my last four hunts I found gold three times using the Viper coil which excellent on small gold. A thin 10K ring that read a solid 44. A small gold earring that gave a good tone but had weird, jumpy numbers, from 40 – 55. I almost didn’t dig it but the sound was, well weird. It was different than jumpy bottlecap numbers. I checked it with Iron Audio and got a partial grunt but also good tone. The reason? When I recovered the earring the clasp was open. Closed it read a solid 55. I had two buddies with their high-end detectors check the earring with the clasp open and both said they would not have dug it because it sounded like junk. And finally, last week a 14K butterfly charm with inlaid diamonds that read 48. All in the wet sand with one bar below max sensitivity. The Apex falsed very little on the wet sand and when it did get a little noisy all I had to do was a quick ground balance. In terms of coins, the Apex did just fine on both wet and dry sand. A mentioned earlier, I liked the Viper coil better than the Reaper at the beach and I think my results speak for themselves. I should note that on these hunts there were up to eight other hunters gridding the same sections of the beach that I was hunting. Every one of them was using a high dollar, top end multi-frequency detector. I did not feel like I was losing anything with my Apex. Now, if you are a surf wash hunter, the Apex is not for you. Yes, it does ground balance easily when submerged in salt water. But the wash will cause it to false with each pass of the whitewater. Personally, since the Apex is not waterproof, only water-resistant, I would not hunt the surf line anyway. Having been hit by a rogue wave years ago I’m not willing to take the risk. If you do hunt the surf and in the water there are better options in terms of detectors. Inland Whatever they did with the update, the general hunting experience of the Apex has been improved in my view. I ran U.S. Coins, which is a nifty option in that it includes all high conductors plus nickels (a range where I have been historically very lucky finding gold). In my hunts in very trashy parks this mode worked great. Some tabs read at the low end of zincs, around 66, and I was able to recognize them after digging several. The Apex target ID numbers are very solid and not jumpy, which given the 0 – 99 TID range is an advantage. While not having a myriad of adjustable settings, the Apex performed pretty well in the high trash. Yes, when you use Jewelry Mode the foil comes to life but that is the case with any detector. I generally don’t hunt in this mode in trash because there is just too much noise to sort through. Using U.S. Coins I was able to hit coin targets easily, even when there were multiple targets. The Iron Audio is a huge advantage when used to check targets. If I got a good hit but it was a bit clipped, turning the Iron Audio on would confirm for me that there was iron present as well. The YouTube idiots who dismissed this detector when it came out because of the noisy Iron Audio just didn’t understand that you shouldn’t leave it on all of the time. Bottlecaps were a cinch to ID. When I got a good high target ID and a solid one-way target response it was always a bottlecap. I checked first with the Iron Audio and confirmed that the target was iron. This worked on everything except screw caps. The other advantage that the Apex has in high trash is the Viper coil. Due to its long, narrow footprint, it can sort out and pinpoint multiple targets easily, much more so than a traditional round coil. By the way, I didn’t notice anything new about the pinpointing. It works just fine but I didn’t have an issue with it when I field tested the detector. I’m just noticing the page length here and need to restrict my field tester instincts before this becomes a full-blown article. Therefore I will sum up this revisiting of the Apex by saying that in my personal view, it is a very cable multi-frequency metal detector that has not received its due. It finds stuff and uses a platform that is markedly different from its competitors. It is a very enjoyable metal detector to use. I sincerely hope that Garrett continues to develop Multi-Flex and I believe that if enhanced in a higher end model it could be a completely unique offering in the world of multi-frequency metal detecting. FYI I intend to keep using mine. Apex Field Test 11202020.pdf

Jeff, I love your old school "here is what I found posts." Gets us back why we do what we do. Not to test and comment and test and comment but to find stuff. Novel concept, eh? Great hunts buddy. Keep 'em coming! Bill

Sorry guys, but 4 pages of posts about Merrill is just way too much. I've said this before and I have to say it again. YouTube guys are entertainers. Period. They are wannabe game show hosts/funny weathermen/standups. The subjects they discuss, like In Merrill's case metal detecting, are just vehicles to provide them a platform from which to crack wise for an audience they would never have if it was just about them. Watch them for amusement but nothing else. For me, I watch Merrill every once in a while just to confirm that he still isn't funny. Bill

I simply do not understand why the company refuses to engage potential customers on any level. They create web sites that die with no activity and zero updates. They sparodically allow a couple of select users to post results of their hunting but do not follow up in any way. They create small groups of inmpressive videos on a new product and then nothing. Not that they need someone as proactive as Dilek, who is an amazing force, but there are other ways to go to engage your consumer base. Look what Garrett has done with Steve Moore. He is good on camera, ACTUALLY hunts, and posts videos from timt to time. Garrett also engaged Steve on the Axiom. Meanwhile, back at the First Texas ranch, they do...nothing...

I have a TDI Beach Hunter and it is a good, but not great PI. I stopped using it when I was getting my butt kicked at the beach by Equniox users and really had no interest in using a PI again until the Axiom came out. I use my Axiom selectively at the beach and I really like it. I think it is superior to the TDI Beach Hunter at the beach. Plus I have used it for gold prospecting and it is quite good. If you are looking for a multi-purpose PI and can afford an Axiom I would suggest selling the TDI Beach Hunter. I know the Axiom isn't waterproof but unless you intend to go in the water it would work just fine. Just my opinion, by the way, so to all of the PI fanatics, who can be a passionate bunch, don't come after me with flaming comments.

Tom is totally right about the DFX/Bigfoot combo. Never had one myself but a guy years ago just killed it at Santa Monica with his. If I recall he mainly hunted the dry but also did well in the wet. I think Steve still owns that combo but I might be mistaken.

That is really impressive!

So Joe, fess up. How many Tesoro's do you own?

I knew Monte very well and we corresponded frequently. He was a wonderful guy. Sure miss him. I still wonder what happened to Troy's design for a visual target ID detector. He and I corresponded about that detector a lot but as I recall he could never put the whole package together to get it made.

I remember when Troy was designing the X5. It's been a long time but didn't Fisher make that one? I seem to recall that he was working on another detector with a display screen but it never happened.

I have known Mike, who owns Borderline, for many years. He made scoops for White's at one point and then went off on his own. I have two of his scoops and as has been mentioned in other posts, the mesh is very stout. Both of mine have been used heavily over the past ten years or more and are in great shape. Plus Mike is the best and if you ever have a problem he will make it right. I can't recommend him highly enough. Pictured is one of my two. Great in the dry and the wet if you don't mind bending over. The angled basket allows you to "chop and scoop" at the same time.

Just curious what anyone thinks was the best of the Tesoro Umax detectors? I had a Cutlass II Umax years ago and it was really fun to hunt with when I just wanted to beep and dig. Bill

The comments about build inconsistency remind me of a similar issue with the Etrac that occurred years ago. Some of you may recall there was a supposed difference in Etracs made in Ireland and later models made in Malaysia. I personally had one of each and did not notice a difference. However, I do remember some guys going nuts on insisting they would only own the Irish version and not the Malaysian one. Again, and it has been a long time ago, the issue just sort of faded away. As phrunt said, if a similar situation exists with Mjnelab's current detectors then I should think that they would not want to open that can of worms. I can only imagine the various YouTubers going ballistic with their amateur detective work trying to source detectors if that did occur.

I love that you are picking up old Garretts. They were fun detectors to use. Garrett sold a tone of these old beep and dig detectors back in the day and they did the job. The old block meter is cool and I love that Garrett has maintained that tradition in the Apex. Post a video if you get a chance using one of these detectors. It would be a lot of fun to watch. Bill

Loren provides a very interesting assessment of the Manticore after 100 hours of use:

That and the fact that there are so many more guys hunting and everyone has multi-frequency detectors. Where years ago we used to be able to always pick up some coins here and there that has really changed. The lowest tech I ever see at the beach anymore is an Equinox. Deus II's have really taken over out here. I've seen one PI in the last two years, same guy using an old White's Surfmaster and he swears it will beat anything. Funny thing is he never has anything to show but who knows, right? I'd rather be lucky than good when it comes to beach hunting!

Great post and it looks like you had fun. Isn't it amazing how the beach can love you and then break your heart the next day? Or vice versa? Hitting a cut like that after finding sanded in conditions is major good luck. Here in S. CA it seems like the entire coast is sanded in right now. Everyone is fighting over zinc pennies it is so bad! Bill

All I can tell you is what I saw when I changed the sensitivity. The science experiment side of it, to be very honest, is of little interest to me. I barely have the free time to hunt let alone do tests and analyses. What this tells me is that I can run the Legend at max sensitivity in the wet without falsing. That's good enough to me.