Chase Goldman

Not only is it "da bomb" at salt beaches, Jeff, it easily nails sub gram gold too! This is a game changer!

Though there is not a whole lot of maneuvering room in price for ML to add such features as the SMF Legend which has as much capability as Nox is looming at $499 MAP and can be purchased for closer to $400.

Yeah but then ML would have to charge $2000 for it.

The Tarsacci is a niche detector and some avid beach detectorists feel it is very close in performance to SMF detectors. The F19 can run pretty stable on the beach with little need to reduce sensitivity extensively, but at 19 khz operating frequency it is probably not as deep as SMFs on high conductors. But I haven't really heard if anyone who would take an F19 or equivalent over a Nox or similar SMF. HTH.

From the User Guide, Xterra somehow identifies "residual salt response" and assigns a "0" TID using it's "specialist salt noise rejection configuration", whatever that means. It looks like the main difference between Beach Profile 1 (Wet and Dry Sand) and Beach Profile 2 (Underwater and Surf) is Profile 2 has a higher default recovery speed. Black sand is more problematic without the benefit of Multi-IQ, as your only recourse after ground balancing is to reduce sensitivity. Salt balance capability is not solely limited to simultaneous multifrequency detectors. The Fisher F19/Technetics G2+/etc single frequency machine is known for its ability to balance well in salt sand and the Tarsacci MDT 8000, a multiple selectable table single frequency machine is specifically designed to have a salt balance adjustment separate from its ground balance adjustment. So it can be done, with some limitations. The Xterra Pro user guide can be downloaded here: https://www.minelab.com/usa/metal-detectors/x-terra-pro

Yep forgot about that. They changed the stock 11" coil ear design to include a threaded insert on one ear. Don't know about the Xterra coils. 6" and 12x15 coils were not redesigned AFAICT. Not sure why that was not sufficient for Manticore.

Naw. They'll probably raise the price like they did with the Nox 800, 3 years after release. I give them credit for doing something (and now if the ears break, it's a rod replacement not a coil replacement) but why re-engineer and make the solution and lower rod design unique (to Manticore) and more complex to manufacture vs. simply increasing ear thickness across the board...strange. Also, I wouldn't be too quick to throw stones Nokta's way considering the anecdotal reports of speaker issues cropping up with Manticore. It's really hard to ascertain failure rates of Nox drownings vs. Legend blown speakers not knowing how many people submerge their detectors vs. run them with the loudspeaker vice headphones. Also, since the Nox 600/800 leak issue was never really addressed with an actual root cause determination and design/manufacturing fix (unlike the speaker batch issue that Nokta did identify and address), a number of Nox users experienced multiple leak failures after pod replacement. Which is just inexcusable. At least I never heard of them not doing a warranty replacement for a leak, so there is that

Can you actually manipulate the controls through that thing or do you have to turn it on before you button it up?

Makes sense. Just make sure you're good with its performance in the water and not just wet salt sand if you need it to do both. It looks really promising, I would just need to see some actual submerged salt water detecting demonstrations with it to be sure. Otherwise, it's definitely a no-brainer for all the other reasons discussed. GL HH

Agree good discussion. I did read the other usage considerations and restated them in my post. Like I said in my post, if I'm wrong about the surf performance/stability of Xterra vs. Nox or any other SMF detector, then Xterra is the real deal (i.e., true Nox salt water replacement) and an even better value. If I was afraid of a Nox drowning, the surf is where Xterra would have to bring the goods. CD's demonstration of the Xterra in wet salt sand was impressive for a $230 single freaker - it defintely slays Simplex, possibly even Apex. But what I was seeing in his video was performance about 60 to 70% of Nox depth (I've recovered nickels at 14 to 16") in wet salt sand where I have no qualms swinging my Nox even if I drop it. The slight falsing when CD did dip the coil in moving salt water and reduced wet salt sand performance vs. Nox tell me it might not be competitive with Nox submerged in moving salt water. So submerged surf performance and black sand performance for Xterra Pro are TBD. BTW - It looks like a killer value as a submersible freshwater rig! I get the tremendous value of Xterra Pro. And it makes a nice no-brainer purchase as a competent backup rig if you don't really need to have Nox-like versatility but want Legend-like value in a multiple selectable single frequency machine. Really not arguing for or against the purchase. Just not seeing the compelling case for using the lower performing Xterra instead of Nox as your primary machine going forward in just wet salt sand (where I'm personally not afraid of the Nox "drowning") and surf performance is TBD. So if those are non-issues for you, that's all that matters, I'm just pointing it out not trying to change your mind. I do get being cautious with an out of warranty machine. In a pinch, I'm definitely willing to use Xterra with confidence as a wet sand beach rig if without a Nox or Legend (or D2 or Manticore) based on what I saw in CD's video. Xterra Pro appears to makes a great entry level detector including use as a wet salt sand beach rig (first purchase) and I would enthusiastically recommend it to anyone who was considering a Simplex or Vanquish for that purpose. After seeing that video, Vanquish's continued existence makes even less sense to me. I agree with Simon that a some Vanquish stripped down Multi-IQ DNA in Xterra would be amazing (at that price point). One additional consideration on the Xterra price point if you desire wireless audio. Xterra utilizes ML's implementation of BT LE Audio for which there are no compatible 3rd party phones available now. Only Minelab's own ML-85's and ML-105's are compatible. I could be wrong, but I don't believe there are any Xterra Pro packages that include wired or wireless phones. If the ML-85's mirror the ML-80 standalone accessory price, then add $139 minimum to the detector cost if you want BT LE audio, if they are even available for purchase yet. Or be prepared to purchase a BT APTX-LL transmitter dongle (~$30) to plug into the Xterra. (I see Mirda covered some of this while I was typing this up).

Let us know how mineralized the ground is too. If heavy mineralization, you might want to notch out 00 and give Relic a try with IAR (tge Relic/Gold Field version of "discrimination) set to 3 or 5 (I use 5 - doesn't seem to affect non-ferrous masking even at that Max setting and the ferrous ground feedback at 00 disappears with the notch) iron will readily sound off (if you have iron volume on) while non-ferrous will squeak through. I use this program in mild dirt too to check potential iron while searching in Deep HC or General. Speaking of which, you can learn a lot about a target by how it responds to custom programs set up with different parameters, including different audio and switching between those programs while swinging over the target and turning on the target. Don't forget to set reactivity consistent with target density. For general open field searching, I like 1 or 1.5. In bed o' nails, I crank it up to 2 to 2.5, sometimes 3. For searching I like General or Deep HC with pitch audio as it really pops on any non-ferrous over the iron volume ferrous grunts. For target interrogation, I switch to relic as it most consistently differentiates falsing ferrous that might show up in Deep HC or General without a turn. If my search program is providing a pure non-ferrous tone, I dig or switch to a corresponding zero discrimination full tones variant (General aka Relic Reaper or Deep HC) of my main pitch search program if I suspect aluminum can slaw, junk, or cans. FT really beings out the hollow, distorted audio associated with irregularly shaped mid-conductive targets or the overload distortion associated with large cans that give off coin IDs. FWIW. Good luck out there and hope you get some goodies.

Everything you say about getting an Xterra (if you already have an 800) makes sense (value priced backup/loaner plus compatibility with Nox coils) except for maybe the exclusive beach machine part. We need to wait and see how the Xterra performs in the wild, but if you are worried about drowning your 800, that means you intend to take your Xterra into the surf, instead. I could be proven wrong, but I seriously doubt the Xterra being a single frequency machine will run anywhere as stable as the 800 in that situation at a reasonable sensitivity setting despite having a “beach” mode. So is it really a viable alternative to a fully functional 800 in that situation? So, for me, it’s either the out-of-warranty 800 or a suitable wet surf alternative unless and until the Xterra proves it can even minimally perform there. I believe it may do better than the AT Pro in salt surf and in wet salt sand (which is probably where ML intends Xterra 8kHz “beach mode” to be used) but if I am just doing wet salt sand, then I am still pulling my out-of-warranty 800 out for the extra edge in performance vs. Xterra because there is little risk of “drowning” the 800 there. Even if I did drown it, I would press ML hard for an extended warranty “consideration” against a replacement pod (~$375 out of warranty replacement cost) because I used it only as ML recommended and it is all but confirmed that ML had some sort of design or manufacturing flaw that contributed to the failure (hence part of the motivation for the 700/900 redesign). If ML had at least provided a limited “beach only” multi frequency mode on Xterra (which would still not significantly intrude into Equinox territory) then the Xterra “beach machine” substitute for a “land locked” 800 would make a lot more sense. It would also be a great reason for ML to shelve the Vanquish lineup (which made a lot less sense after the Ace Apex was released), improving Xterra sales even further. But since all of that Xterra Multifrequency Beach Mode discussion is a fantasy and moot, and having a capable and versatile and affordable beach/backup to your Equinox is a goal, then a bare bones Legend might be something to consider as well. If you do your homework, a bare bones Legend (i.e., without the BT headset) can be had for less than $400. That’s not $229, I know, but it’s a hell of a lot more machine than the Xterra for an additional $150 to $170 if your primary motivation is decent beach work and not just solely for getting a low cost backup or tech junkie buy. Again, just something to consider. FWIW.

Lack of 3rd party coil support for Nokta is less of an issue than it is for Minelab as Nokta had two accessory coils available AT RELEASE for Legend and then provided 2 more less than a year later for a total of 5 coils and all are reasonably priced and cover the bases from 6" round, to small elliptical, to stock round, to mid-elliptical, up to large elliptical. For Manticore, three months in...just promises and crickets.

Dan You also need to know how mineralized the ground is and the D2 gives you that information utilizing the mineralization bargraph (see inset in pic below - it is displaying mineralization about half way up the scale indicating moderate minerslization which peaks (gives a true mineralization reading) while pumping/sweeping the coil). Using someone else's program that works great in "no bar" dirt may not work out so well in "full bar" or even "half scale" mineralized dirt, or it may do just fine. Bob is going to give his Relic Reaper program and I am giving my custom Relic mode program a test in some red clay this weekend at a site we went to last year that is a far cry from his northern neck paradise zero bar dirt. We may or may not come away with some tweaks to our respective favorite relic programs as a result, so stay tuned.

Good info regarding the compatibility issues. As I linked here, Sennheiser is utilizing the Nordic Chipset for their forthcoming BT LE Audio products.

If you are referring to @Gerry in Idaho, why don't you PM him directly, he will be more likely to see your direct inquiry and respond rather than come across it by luck in this random thread. Or look for his posts in the classified section.

Put simply, you're hearing the airplane's myriad of much higher power radio transmitters including radar transponder beacons and other communications and navigational radios. These transmissions can be measured at a level of hundreds or even thousands of watts at the source. Your detector is tuned to detect signals at the microwatt level (1/1,000,00th of a watt). And only eminates microwatts of spurious EMI to the local area. Since the plane is above you and has no line of site obstructions to attenuate the higher frequency radio signals, they travel unobstructed at power levels higher than a microwatt to your high gain electronics box and you hear them as electromagnetic interference in your headset. Just as you would also hear the EMI given off by a local cell tower, radio transmitter, or high voltage power lines (though these "terrestrial" electromagnetic sources may be subject to line of sight attenuation) and even atmospheric lightning. If you think of it like sound energy, the plane's radios are yelling through a Marshall Amp at you and your detector is whispering back at them. You can hear them, no way can they hear you.

Human idiocy favors no single country, Reg - the entire world gets to reap its rewards.

I personally felt the 15x12 coil for Nox was a fine coil for what it was. Great coverage, obviously, and excellent small target sensitivity for its size but because it was really just a 12-inch stretched coil, minimal depth gain over the 11" stock round. As a result, I would only primarily only use it for coverage on low mineralized sites (non-submerged beach detecting or non-mineralized farm fields) and even under those circumstnces, was hesitant to make the effort to bolt it on to my Nox because of the weight (despite being tied with the Nox 10x5 in swing coverage to weight ratio). Now I primarily just keep the 10x5 permanently bolted to the Nox as it is a more universally compatible coil for a variety of detecting situations and makes for a super light setup with decent swing coverage despite a moderate depth penalty. If I want to go deep, I'm using the D2 and it's 13x11 behemoth. Also remember, everyone here is extrapolating their 15x12" coil experience from the Equinox (600/800 primarily) to the Manticore (while the OP is considering the forthcoming Manticore variant). So all the speculation should be taken with grain of salt because we know the Manticore reacts to beach targets differently than the Nox 800 and even the 900; we have zero data on how Manticore behaves with any other coil than the stock; and we have no idea whether ML will tweak the 15x12 coil design for Manticore in some respect to trade off one performance attribute (e.g., depth) at the expense of another attribute (e.g., small target sensitivity) making the Manticore 15x12 variant behave a lot different than the Nox 15x12. So while they SHOULD behave similarly, there are a number known unknown variables that may impact the final outcome. Just a reminder...

I agree that the pinpointing function on the XP machines is mediocre at best. I often by pass the pinpoint feature and just use the criss-cross method or wiggle and pull the coil back until the signal disappears at the toe. It does not come into play using the pinpointing function, but the XP will separate MUCH better than the MXT even with that MXT sniper coil in thick iron and trash utilizing its higher recovery speed settings (don't know if you adjusted those) - in fact the separation in extreme trashy grounds is what separates (sorry about the pun) the Orx/Deus from other detectors and is considered one of its great strengths. So your comments kind of surprise me. Anyway, like I said previously, the MXT is a classic in any event, not surprised you are having trouble parting with it.

Are you sure you are not viewing Equinox 800 videos? Minelab changed the target ID scale from -10 to 40 on the Equinox 600/800 to -19 to 99 on the Equinox 700/900. Therefore, videos showing gold target IDs on the Nox 600/800 will have lower numbers than you will have for the same targets detected by the Nox 700/900. Gold target IDs also vary widely based on the size and purity of the nugget (or gold jewelry target). The numbers you are getting are likely correct for your 900. See below for additional discussion on Equinox 900 target IDs. Manticore uses the same target ID scale so Manticore target IDs for similar targets should be close to what you would see on the Equinox 900, as well.

Test threads are often spread out over weeks. Sometimes it is necessary to read more than just the last post and to go back through the previous posts (again) to remind you of or pick up on the bread crumbs of information that provide the context of why people set up their machines the way they did. Often, to duplicate similar results on A to B comparisons means you may have to do some severe settings "gymnastics" like Jeff did, to get an an idea of the extent of the machine-to-machine performance deltas under extremely atypical test target placements to stress the machines' capabilities. This also means, that a machine can end up in a settings configuration far from where you would otherwise set up the machine if you were simply taking it out for a more typical "real life" detecting scenario.

Go ahead and give us the Amz link.

I have these, they work but they never really clicked for me. Just seemed like too much stuff wired to my head and didn't really see any advantage with this PI probe over a handheld pinpointer at the end of the day. I was using them with a GPX PI detector for a spell. One issue was figuring out how to stow the wired probe when not in use because the coiled cord wants to pull it back towards the earcup. With the XP Deus 2, I just use the wireless Mi6 pinpointer and of course the wireless phones. Which basically accomplishes the same thing as you can hear both the detector and pinpointer through the phones (though not simultaneously). After getting used to being free from a bunch of dangling wires (probe cord and the headphone cord), I doubt I will go back to it, though I may give it another go with my Axiom.

Long shot: I noticed on iffy signals Manticore battery replacement tutorial video that the one needs to insert the battery until the speaker audibly pops from the internal cavity pressure upon battery reinstallation. Perhaps there is a pressure equalization issue in play rather than an electrical or speaker diaphragm issue. Battery removal and reinsertion is comparatively easy on Manticore and Nox 700/900 than it was on the original Nox. It also does not void the warranty. Perhaps a simple battery removal and reinstall to equalize internal pressure will help. It could save the hassle of shipping it back for repair/replacement. Just a thought. Here's a link to iffy's video: