DDancer

Been a while since I've spoken, had a walk about, however this topic is one that came up a few times on my stays in the caravan parks this year. GPZ signals :) Hehh hehh, they can be a bit complicated~ the warble and what I call treble signal, in vlf's the nail and wire signal are pretty close, and the deep but not ground noise signal. Then there's the screamer, the overload and one off signals. What I find amusing about these signals in discussions around the fire is that there is always one or two blokes who claim they can tell trash from gold with all these noises. Even had a rather heated one about how to swing the Zed without a harness~ but I digress. Thing is there is no way to tell gold from any other target with the Zed. Had only a few treble/warble signals this year- all gold. Deep repeatables- gold and lead with some bits of iron. Screamers- gold but alot of trash as well. Overload- all trash this year but they all got dug. One offs- small gold and wire fragments only come in good on one swing till you scratch and chase them down. Lots of normal gotta be gold signals~ you know the mellow smallish repeatable ping thats not to loud and not to soft- gold and lead pellets of various sizes as well as moderately deep iron bits and some brass eyelets. Two bits of advise I gave those blokes at the parks. 1. Dig it all if its repeatable or sharp. 2. If its deep, low groan but localized, and repeatable from two directions~ ie check it at 90 degrees a second time~ dig it. When in doubt on this signal knock off 6 inches and try again. ^make a big hole :)^ My attitude towards the "tuned ear for trash" is pretty much a small smile and confidence that when I find your patch I'll pick up what you left behind. There is no such thing as a tuned ear but there is a gut check ;)

Yep definitely need a smaller coil. Part of why I just l picked up a 2300, Chris points out a great example~ been there done that~ and AussieMatt points out another problem but not just with bush but Furrows as well. Interesting that the Average coil size hits so close to the 19 inch put out. 14 is great for me, dug plenty deep enough holes already. Well off to Leonora to put the 2300 to work on dinks and the 7000 on patches and potatoes.

Hehh! Sweet spots indeed. However others have had a run this season and they may be dud's. I'm not worried as the Zed will sing its song! Heard word from Mono that Betty has a few more dings but I will look her up in Leonora. Reg is outta the game this year... looking to go to India on another woman... old rascal. Let ya know as I do. Gonna have to buy another dolly pot though.... bang bang bang! *dont wince to much its just the hot rocks.* Hahh!

Yeah Tortuga I know what your saying. Arizona has the gold but not like down there. As to using a Radio Shack~ nah it wouldn't work on anything but the surface stuff, if that ;) While I did reference Victoria as mild ground that reference only works for Australia. Big difference between here in the States and down under. I'll reference you this: Back in '99 I took my first dig at OZ down there in Victoria's Golden Triangle with my Gold Bug. Even went so far as to hire a trainer after a couple of weeks of camping and finding bullets. My trainer found gold, he used a SD2100 with a Joey, and even had me wave over a bit he had not dug~ a half gram specie inside quartz at about 4 inches down~ and neither of us could hear it with the Bug. His advice, and subsequent advice from a good mate I made down there, was to get a PI. His experience over the years with the Bug and various other VLF's was that though they work they are not the most productive thing to use down there. When I got frustrated enough I popped for a SD2100e, a couple of coils, and camping back on a spot I'd been trying for weeks got my first nugget on a path I'd been over dozen of times at 3 inches. Never went back to VLF again and gave the GB to my mate as thanks. Point of the video for me, even though its excellent gold, is that even though he has terrific audio the same sounds occur with big and smaller bits deep and shallow. I've been using my ears for years, like anyone else, to tease info out of targets~ operator discrimination~ while digging it all. The Zed and my old PI's will talk to me and because of my extended breaks in detecting videos like this are great for retraining my ears. And motivation for my heart because there are a lot of gold less days no matter how hard you try. I'm sure that guy in the video is pounding a lot of distance too and was gracious enough to vid a great find. I found it interesting that in the first part of the vid he notes what appear to be some older digs. In the latter part he notes that it appears someone else had made it into the spot as well. Gotta wonder who was using what and when those digs occurred :) Hahh! Thanks Fred. Think it will be an ok trip. Kinda disappointed I'll only get about 8 weeks this season but seeing as how I am going about it that'd be my limit anyway. Gets to warm in September. At least the sky's will be brightening and the weathers usually pretty fair this time of year.

Well time is coming for me to dust off the Zed and take a walk about in WA again. I keep my eyes out for interesting video's in youtube from time to remind myself of what I should be listening for. The following vid is a pretty good one in that not only does the man find a great patch but keeping your ears on he demonstrates the audio for these beautiful chunky pieces. Granted its all pretty shallow stuff, for the Zed, and he's in Victoria's milder ground but I still found myself figuring the size of his finds just with the audio he presents as he sweeps the Zed. Only things missing for my ears are the complex trebly and deep grunt signals I've heard with my own experience. However the big one in the video gets pretty close to the complicated trebly signal I love to dig on. This video has me psyching up and is a great inspiration :) I hope he keeps finding the good stuff. Me~ hehh I'll get a little something but I hope people here will pick up on those signals and be inspired as well.

A very thoughtful article. It'll be interesting to hear what the results are and see what the state does in response.

Swampstomper has a couple of good video's there :) Nice set up in those vids. Be interesting to see what you come up with Van. Lots of ways to do things and with help its that much easier. My first and second kits both cost well over 12 grand to put together. First one I flew in a couple of times to have the ute, old datsun, wrenched on and kitted. Second one, current troopie conversion, I purchased and kitted in what was needed. Both times though I had the help of friends down under. Norvics offering a great value and good on him! :) 15 to 20 grand on an extended stay is not unusual all told but gets cheaper if you hold onto your kit for the next go.

Kinda a Freudian thing eh? Unfortunately its kinda true as well. Scary thing to swing a big thing however if its small.... well it must be kinda impotent. Guess its all in how you use it. Kinda like a big pick verse's a small p*ick.... how deep you gonna dig that hole? Sorry Steve edit as required but its so damn funny in its truths when dealing with persons of interest!!!! Bwhahahahaha

Suggest you shop a bit on gum tree and at that go with a dealer that can offer you a warranty. Use what Aussie contacts you have and secure a good deal. After that look at rego, registration, and keep in mind the expenses. Your not just buying a vehicle your buying a HOUSE. Gonna be living out of it so.... Lot of extras need to be in the vehicle and you'll probably need to do some maintenance on it as well if you intend to resale at the end of the trip. Oh I can tell you some stories... but I wont. KISS. You can go with a dealer like AutoBarn or such.... did it and its a good deal.... or kit yourself. Done it twice myself~ kitting. You got time so plan accordingly one Yank to another. Figure your budget before you leap into the shark tank mate. Bad enough spending a couple of grand to go but the cost of a tire..... oh that can suck badly in the wrong spot. DD

I'm with Fred on this as well. There is no discrimination save that of the operators opinion. Even that variable setting was not true discrimination on the PI's, just a cut out. Steve's observation on the signal response of the Zed is a good example of operators discrimination. Hehh, there is a certain trebly warble signal I just adore on the Zed and PI's that for all intents is trash to anyone else ;) Wish you luck and look forward to what you get at the beach :) Me I love the parks there... lots of lost abo's and kangaroo's amidst the bottle caps and pull tabs. Beaches have a good view to. Hahh!

Hawkeye, As I said its my opinion but its one as I hold fact to myself that excess metal does affect the GB of the Zed and act as a filter with some limits to performance. My partner and I both noted the effect in small target recovery. When I switched from my big Walco to a smaller pick my small finds increased (bird shot being the "Gold" standard). Recovery improved by switching to manual GB as well as getting metal away from the coil. The Zed does see all that metal, and most likely treats it as a ground effect with the result that it dumbs itself down *or whatever those clever bits do* to adjust to the conditions it perceives. This affect also applies to PI's with Auto GB and I proved that years ago with a hand full of nickels and some tape. However the effect was not as extreme with PI's as with the ZVT. I know what your experiencing with the big pick :) I did the same thing by carrying it high however that never fully got it out of the Zeds "eye" and at my settings I could still hear it as a ground noise. Smaller picks can be carried low however I've observed that even though the Zed will eventually tune the pick out it does know its there and it, the Zed, is going to dumb down. So I carry the small pick high to. It, Ground Balance, is a bit off topic to Ground modes however I feel it has a significant impact on all modes and settings and thought to bring it up. As to the 2300 and the Zed. Well, opinion, I can use the Zed like a 2300 but the 2300 will smoke the Zed on smalls. Watched it for a fact on a small fairly condensed patch I found. Pulled a couple of grams out and set my mate on it as repayment for helping me pop a bit out at 1 meter thru calcrete. He came back with a happy 4 grams from all around my dig holes. I feel it had more to do with the fact that the Zed has a honking big coil but in another location my mate pulled over a 100 bits where my partner and I pulled almost none. Kinda apples and oranges but an interesting observation. Man I'd love a smaller coil for the Zed.

Its a sausage casing with no filling. Interesting that the upper coil only has reinforcement to the front *and a band aid* but not to the rear~ a potential problem if that casing is near finalized. Interesting though. Looks like the fillings in the background... wonder if it fell out from the weight ;) hehh.

This is my opinion, however there has been some recent reporting on it, that there is one more filter that should be taken into account outside of the Mode and Ground type settings. Its the Auto/Manual Ground balance. GB mode does affect response to small targets. This can be pretty pronounced during recovery if you carry a lot of metal on you. While the Zed is pretty darn good at not tracking out targets in Auto while well away from the coil; once I move into recovery small targets tend to kind of disappear much like mn90403 describes. This is because, and I and my partner proved it to ourselves, the Zed starts taking into account the pick, my glasses, and anything else on our person *gps, radio, pack and whatever else* and starts to dull down due to the extra "metal" its seeing. I had to move to a smaller pick and dropping my gear off in patches with smalls *had to keep my glasses* as a result. My partner would just drop his pick and gear *and he really killed the tiny weeny fairy farts*. During general hunting we both carried our picks high *I'd loop mine in my harness behind my shoulder*. The disappearing effect in Auto goes away pretty quickly once we backed off from the coil and put picks outta reach when we felt the target was out of the hole. Its not a flaw~ just the detector doing its job. An old suggestion is to dedicate the user button to switch between Auto and Manual for use during recovery. I found it works well. Especially since I wear glasses with a metal frame though it does mean I have to keep my head still and use my arms with a scoop at length. I've also recently read how others are using manual in mild ground conditions with success. Thing is you have to dig on "iffy" stuff often.

That article also had some interesting things to say about the use of Extra and normal as well *have to try that*. Steve reiterates a solid point that seems to get forgotten when it comes to filters of any type. There is no one beat all end all so experiment :) My experience in WA is that difficult is the more normal (pun) way to go however I found that moving from High Yield to General in the difficult mode works best for hunting patches especially at sense settings over 17. I'm talking outside the USA of course so it may not be a valid point for this forum's US prospectors. The use of Extra works well after rains down under. Normal ground type was experimented with down in OZ however there were only very limited areas that it could be used in. My partner used High Yield more than me and we both scored bits of each others patches the other would miss~ though I generally found the largest deep ones and he the most smalls. Mind that was mostly work in Difficult~ Normal and Severe did not net much of anything except some rework. My thoughts.

Interesting video and it makes a fair point to me on what goes on behind the doors both there and likely at other manufactures labs. Even if there is a bit of fluff in the video there is a good statement being made~ They are not sitting around waiting for the competition. Now if they'd just unblur that new GPZ 6 inch coil...... hehh

Out bush here in the US or in OZ one really has to keep aware of where they are at and what's going on around them. Bee's, wasps, centipedes, scorpions, snakes or other various critters should always be riding in the back of ones mind. Why? Because its their house. It is relatively easy to say but practice is its own experience. It is sad someone died from bee's however it was probably also avoidable. Problem is a lot of people do not have a mindset or even any education as to what to do when the crisis arises. If you happen to see people out bush let them know what your seeing and maybe pass some advice. Its a good conversation starter and it passes knowledge that they may not have. I do it myself and have received it from others :) Bee's and wasps are unique in that they will chase a threat and as mentioned its generally only about a 100 yards though a few may persist after that. My experience is I Don't have to sprint flat out for more than a quarter of that~ then trot and slap with a hat or shirt *I wear a long sleeve or have one on me*. If you know your allergic always carry an epi-pen and let your partners know about it and its use. Otherwise carry Benadryl. Even if its only a few stings use the Benadryl to offset the reaction and if its a lot of stings chew it up. For me it makes life easier and I know it will buy me time if I get hit heavily. To date I've had my fun with Bee's *foreign and domestic*, various species of wasps, various species of ants including bull ants, a few scorpions and spiders but have avoided pretty much everything else that could really do me harm. Just by being aware, having those give and take conversations with others, and being honest that I'm in their house *critters* so respect the land. My thoughts.

LOL 3.14 ect! No doubt.

Yes however that's why I used the term volumetric, or total size. Sorry volumetric is my 5 dollar word for the day ;) Volume, size, and mass, density, are two different things and that is what I was reading in your thought. I, personally, have to keep them seperate because a thousand pounds of feathers has the same mass, density as a thousand pounds of peanuts but alot more volume, size. Detectors respond to total size fairly equally for items of similar composition. Your point of .3 lead to .3 gold in terms of size/volume is well taken. Mass, density or weight are not factored when the point is size/volume of the target. Overall your statements good but I guess I'm getting into the semantics to much. Sorry.

With proper shaping a ceramic spike is possible in my thoughts. Seems there might be material that can withstand the abuse that only steel can handle at this time. Flexibility in steel is one of its key strengths for picks and striking objects. As to a hybrid, metal spikes and ceramic, also an interesting thought but that increases complexity though it does help with another thought I've been toying with~ weight of the head for throw power. Smaller profile indeed. Food for thought... Thanks.

So your making a statement for mass verses volumetric size between lead and gold? Personally I go with volumetric size if your going to test between the two objects. Surface area has more to do with an item being detected more so than mass does. Two objects of the same volume with similar conductivity will give similar results. A larger less dense object with similar mass of a smaller denser object will read before the smaller target due to less volume to interact with the detector. My thought.

I will be curious to see what results you have with the 35 and the new coils. Might give me reason to bring the 3000 back out of retirement. As to mono mode with a DD I found it to be a stable way of using the DD and a good method for pin pointing with larger DD coils in deeper holes along with Cancel. Mono with the stock 11 DD worked as well as my mono Joey coil in hot ground with less singing. Just have to remember the coil only really works on the left. Cant speak for the 35 as a mono machine though I've seen plenty of big mono's on them. My old 3000 worked well against the 35, 2006, and in some cases the 4000 back in 2010, last time I took it out for a good fossick down in Australias west. Got out of the PI box last year as my partner and I went with the 7000. He got there about 2 months before me and he was already getting out of the box the 7000 has with its only accessories~ the settings and modes. By the end of that tour we were both out of the factory box, in no small part with help from this Forum and tips in a few others, but again it was getting to know the machine that helped the most with a go-to attitude for trying different things.

Over the last few years the thought rolls around in my head that with all the developments in material sciences, ceramics in particular, why has there not been a ceramic pick developed? We can make ceramic motors for cars and ceramic knifes that are pretty robust. In science fiction there are references to a mythic material called plas-steel however there really is not much on this in real science~ but its a totally cool idea and heck Star Trek practically gave us the hand held communicator ;) Any entertaining thoughts on this? Would you buy one? What do you think something like that would be worth? For me I think it would be a gold mine in itself as all current detectors on the top shelf do react to the amount of metal we carry on our persons. I don't feel things like weight are an issue but dulling down of a detector because I carry my honking big pick is rather annoying. And putting the honker down to detect is a great way to loose it, or have 30 waypoints to no where in my GPS unit... oh did I just stray 2km from where I dropped it..... and looking down I hope that target does not move before I get back to dig it. Where as with the ceramic I'm working a peak level and am Johnny on the spot when that nugget sings. This is something I feel can be done. And probably fairly cheaply~ so no carping about breaking the bloody thing ;) Thanks. And no I dont recommend something like this for solid rock but that'd be cool to as so many scrapes are full of Iron from chipping of blades and teeth.

Question: Has anyone ever asked a manufacture why they dont use such elementary items as your suggesting in their products?

Nothing wrong with thinking outside the box. Its a small place, that box, and can hamper more than help most of the time. Using my SD2100e or GP3000 I'd often switch up my coils and try different methods with some success. The DD coil really is quite good at ferriting out trash and good targets and used in Mono with larger DD coils as good as any mono I know. GP did not like mono's over 11 inches~ mine anyway. But a 16 or 24 DD and it was pretty hot even though you had to sweep alot more. Getting out of the box is pretty well tied to knowing your equipement. Neat thread :)

Personally I to can attest to the hipstick and a bungee. Zed arm is another matter all together but the harness in conjunction with the stick is a life saver in a rocky sea in my opinion. Glad the subject was up again and has the backing. Full harness works however it has its limits in both motion and stripping when it comes down to a serious pinch and ya gotta strip. There are times all I gotta say. Hahh@!