GB_Amateur

Excellent post, Tim. This sounds very much like a site I've been hunting this summer (and maybe again this weekend) -- new school built in the early 90's to replace a much older one (don't know how old...). I've found a few Wheats and one Merc. Here are my impressions of your site: 1) Finding Wheats is a great marker, IMO. I can't imagine many detectorists who refuse to dig copper coins but then have the ability to instead select silver dimes. The ID's are so close (on my detectors anyway) that trying to distinguish would seem to be hopeless. Thus I think you should find silver dimes where you're finding wheats. There just aren't as many of them. This summer at various sites I've found about 40 Wheats and five silver dimes -- that's an 8::1 ratio in this small sample. So just continuing to go over that area which has produced wheats could produce more goodies. 2) Again, from my experience at the site mentioned above, the street sides of the location of the old school are where I've found most of my oldies. In my case there was less excavation/backfill done there. Any old indicators (old trees, old sidewalks, etc.) are good places to search. Another 'trick' is to look for uneven ground (especially sloped) where water has caused some erosion. This can expose deeper old ground and even turn some buried coins into surface coins. I can't tell from the photo how flat the area you are searching is. 3) I like Cabin Fever's recommendation of searching near those houses. That is far away from both the new school and the old school, possibly meaning there wasn't much excavation done there when they tore down the old school and built the new one. I agree with you that sometimes backfill brings in old stuff, but more often than not it adds too much baren overburden to good ground making the old stuff way too deep for detection. Good fortune in your next hunt(s) there. Don't discount the wheaties (there may be some scarce dates+mintmarks among them!) and hope you find some silver.

There is an organization known as the Professional Numismatics Guild which has extremely strict requirements on ethics. There are, of course, a lot of honest, ethical coin dealers who don't belong the PNG, but the chances of getting ripped off by a PNG member should be next to nil. If you don't have time to shop around, this would be you best option, IMO. They may not necessarily be in the position/need to buy you coins but I'm sure under the circumstances they would be happy to give you some indication of value and likely recommend someone who would want to buy them. I searched thru their website (pngdealers.org) for PNG members in AZ and found these four. The first guy (Grovich) sounds like the right guy, but I don't know how close you are to Carefree (which I think is ~25 miles north of Scottsdale). The others could certainly advise and very likely appraise if they aren't interested in buying. Even if you aren't in driving distance I would at least call and tell them of your situation. They will help. Nicholas Grovich Member No. 553 Since 12/31/1997 American Federal Rare Coin & Bullion P.O. Box 5810 Carefree, AZ 85377-5810 United States Hours: 8am-5pm MST Phone: (800) 221-7694, (480) 553-5282 Fax: (480) 553-5290 eMail: nick@americanfederal.com Website: http://americanfederal.com, Specialties: We trade in all types of gold, silver and platinum bullion. We specialize in buying and selling both rare and bullion type coins. Cash offers. We purchase all types of coins from Indian cents to proof gold. We will travel to inspect collections and pay on the spot, or you can take advantage of our Consignment Program. Cory Frampton Member No. 682 Since 08/09/2010 World Numismatics LLC P. O. Box 5270 Carefree, AZ 85377 United States Hours: 8am-4:30pm Mon-Fri Phone: (480) 921-2562, cell (602) 228-9331 Fax: (480) 575-1279 eMail: cory@mexicancoincompany.com Website: http://mexicancoincompany.com, Specialties: Mexico and Latin America PNG Awards: Robert Friedberg Award - 2010 Richard Snow Member No. 707 Since 05/18/2012 Eagle Eye Rare Coins, Inc. P.O. Box 32891 Tucson, AZ 85751 United States Hours: 9-5 Mon-Fri in store Phone: (520) 498-4615, (866) 323-2646 Fax: (520) 529-1299 eMail: rick@indiancent.com Website: http://indeancent.com, http://greatcoins.com Specialties: Flying Eagle and Indian Cents, Eagle Eye Photo Seal Brett Sadovnick Member No. 760 Since 09/02/2014 Tucson Coin & Autograph 6350 N. Oracle Rd. Tucson, AZ 85704 United States Phone: (520) 219-4427 Fax: (520) 797-1482 eMail: tucsoncoin@theriver.com Website: http://tucsoncoin@theriver.com,

You can simply post those photos right here on this thread and we can all share in the fun (I'm serious) of valuing them. Hey, we all hear you on that -- there are many who have detected 40+ years and have never found a single gold coin let along a cache of them. Right now (I'm really only a couple years experienced) I would be thrilled to find a silver half dollar. While I'm at wishing, might as well make that a Walking Liberty..., 1921(any mint -- I'm not greedy)..., Extremely Fine condition....

I didn't even think of this -- that the reason I may have missed these small targets before but picked them up now is that I had the gain set too high previously. Just another example of why it helps to post here: others can point out details/reasons/etc. that I've missed. When I was in Colorado a month ago and was able to pick the brain of an experienced F75 user he told me that he often runs at a gain of 50, which is just halfway up the gain scale. He suggested I try that. John, your post clarfies why he said that. Thanks! This also may be another emphasis of "simple isn't better" when it comes to understanding how an MD works. In one of Dave Johnson's posts he mentions how unrealistic it is to think of the zone of detection of a coil as an inverted dome or cone. He goes further to say something about over 24 degrees of freedom (>24 variables) that affect how a target will signal. (The number he specified may have been 27.) And I'm pretty sure he was talking about a single target. How many variables when you add another target in range, and another.... Further speculating, suppose you have a small nail at 6 inch depth and nearby a dime at 4 inch depth. The signal you get will not only depend upon where the coil is with respect to these targets and the direction and speed of motion, but also on the gain. If you can reduce the effect of the nail more than the effect of the coin by turning down the gain then you come out ahead. Is this (still an overly simple explanation ) a description of what is happening?

Out for 3.5 hours yesterday with the F75: 5 inch coil, FAst process, gain 85 to start but turned down to 70 (still high compared to some detectors), 0 threshold (experimented cutting out iron @15 setting, but decided I liked it better hearing the iron). No 'good' finds so won't bother with that. But a couple things I noticed -- 1) I found a few small bits (examples: 22 bullet and 22 casing) in an area I've search many times previously ('many' meaning at least 4 times) with other detectors and even the F75 with a different coil and settings. There are multiple explanations for this, but "they weren't present before" is not one of them. Still, I can't say it was because I didn't pick them up previously due to masking. Also possible are: a) didn't get the coil over them due to poor coverage/swinging, b) different ground moisture (we finally got some rain; YEAH!), c) inattentiveness, particularly when trying to find the signal in all the noise ('noise' being iron hits -- mostly nails), and d) just better technique, etc. due to more experience (including reading I've done, particularly here). 2) Although I still have a lot to learn, in general and about how specific detectors in my arsenal respond, I think I've picked up on some generalities but of course would like to hear what others have to say, either contrary or in agreement. (Misery loves company. ) A) I have a term I've toyed with (and I wouldn't be surprised if I've picked this term up from others): 'target confusion'. Masking is included in this, but there are other things that I think enter in which may not specifically fit under that title. One seems to be having two iron objects separted by several inches (let's say 8 inches as an example) and although either one ID's as iron, when you're between them you get a false signal that ID's above iron. I end up digging the false signal and finding nothing. B) Another related case of target confusion seems to occur when two objects are close enough in space that they don't seem to give separate signals, but give a combined signal whose ID doesn't match either one. Also, when swinging off-center, you can get a positve signal from an iron target that shows up in its true 'bin' when you get centered over it. C) Orientation of nails: It seems that a perfectly vertical nail will give a high (non-ferrous) ID every time (unless it's super rusted to the point of not even holding itself together). Certainly (if true) it doesn't matter what direction you sweep your coil because of the symmetry. Horizontal nails can (depending upon size) give different signals/ID's depending upon the coil sweep direction, and sometimes give positive (non-ferrous) signals over their very tips. However, I don't find there is a consistent signal for nails in general, because they can be bent, come in a plethora of sizes, and they are typically oriented randomly. Very few are perfectly vertical but most aren't perfectly horizontal, either. The ones at odd angles give signals which are like neither horizontals nor verticals. D) Although under perfect conditions, a good target (e.g. coin) gives you a consistent signal with the proper ID, much of the time you have to deal with less. I've read "just dig the consistent signals, independent of swing direction" and I'm pretty sure that will give you a high true positive result, but it will also give you a lot of false negatives. (I want ALL the good stuff!) What has happened to me (and I suspect many others) is when I first go to a site I find the 'easy' good targets -- the ones close to the surface or reasonably distant from other (bad) targets. After that either one assumes there aren't any more goodies, or that they are too deep or too masked to find without Herculean effort. After the low-haning fruit is picked, the remaining desirable targets are tough to discern without much better techniques (and maybe not even then). And yet I suspect the truly expert detectorists can do a lot better. (That's why I wish just once I could bring a more experienced detectorist to one of my locations and say "show me what I've missed.") In summary, depending upon conditions, detector choice, coil choice, and settings, the response can be significantly different. I don't think this is much different than many endevaors -- people (myself included) search for simple explanations when in fact, much of the time there is a 'conspiracy' of things going on, all of which interact to give a signal/indication/result which is quite different than any of the individual causes. And the really expert are the ones who (maybe) figure out what is going on. I think I'm headed in the right direction, and although I'll never get there, it's been a fun journey so far and I hope it continues that way.

It appears there are three sub-models at the same price, but what are the differences? Is it just the decoration (two versions of camo and the non-camo)?

There have been many posts in the past month regarding Minelab's (and others') marketing techniques. This morning's Dilbert cartoon, although not directly related, sure rang a bell with me: http://dilbert.com/strip/2017-10-07

Well, my fastest detector is the F75 in FA process. That process seems to be the most susceptible to EMI, but particularly with the 5 in diameter DD coil it's minimized. And of course I can always turn down the gain with any coil. But the trashy areas I search are much easier with the 5 inch. You guys have given me my setup and settings for tomorrow's hunt. Thanks!

I agree with all of your bullet points, but this one is currently the only sure way of finding everything worthwhile, and unfortunately few of us have the time to go that far. There's an interesting Tom D. writeup where he does just this. I think he was on a baseball field. He went over it completely with a VLF to where he couldn't get any more non-ferrous signals. Then he went back with a PI and dug everything. (I forget how many hours/days he invested but obviously it was a lot.) In the end he found four times as many coins in the second part compared to the first! Gives us hope there's still good stuff out there.

You took the words right out of my mouth. It's obvious he has professional experience at this (the media creation, not necessarily the detecting ). Way to dig-it-all, Tom. That 'tin' (iron) looks familiar. I collected a goldpan full of that in Colorado mountains last month for my 6 hours of detecting, and I didn't even find anything close to being as nice as that ring. But it was worth every minute.

The more I learn (by reading and experience) the more I realize that unmasking is the holy grail future of induction balance (IB) detectors. Dankowski has been emphasizing the issue for years (as your link to a 2000 article shows Dankowski - Beneath The Mask). The sites I hunt are visciously peppered with iron, small and large. That goes for old homesites here in the Midwest and out West, at old abondoned mines, placer sites, and ghost towns. As bad as littering is today, at least we have trash barrels, recycling, refuse collection, and advertising pleas to keep the world a beautiful place. I get the impression that back in the 19th century the thought didn't even occur to them. People can still cherry pick (using strict discrimination) to avoid the trash. If all you're after is recent drops (clad, zinc, and maybe a few pieces of silver jewelry) then go for it. I want old stuff and, as you note, that means dealing with lots of trash. But even careful hunting today is hampered severely by masking. As Tom D.'s report shows, not only don't you hear the good target, sometimes you don't even here the bad ones! How do you know there might be good target being masked if your detector responds as if there is no metal at all within its search field?! It's my impression that masking is just as big of a problem for nugget hunters. Does it just get less attention because most nugget hunting is done with pulse induction (PI) and zero volt transmission (ZVT) technology, which (AFAIK) doesn't offer much discrimination anyway. If you're really going to dig-it-all, including iron, then eventually you're going to find just about every piece of detectable metal within range.

I know of one more. The Gold Bug Pro has the V-break (where low tones and high tones separate on the target-ID scale) locked to the discrimation setting point. For example, if you want to set your V-break to hit a low tone on the smallest aluminum pieces you can set it at 45. (Iron is 0--> 40 and US nickels are at 58 so you're still well clear of that and its clones.) But this forces the discriminator to be set at 10 (25% of the way into iron). Thus low tones have a 35 wide gap (10-->45).Also the movement is 2::1. Set the V-break at 50 and the discriminator goes to 20 tightening low tones to a 30 wide gap (20-->50). For someone like me who still wants to hear everything in the iron range (0-->40), I have to either give up some iron or be forced to hear small aluminum foil as high tones. The F19 (and G2+, I think) have independent discrimination setting and V-break setting. That's a nice plus compared to the GB Pro and G2, IMO. Not to argue that these $449 prices aren't a great deal, but I wish Fisher would add multi-tones and the ability to select the tone for each notch. Their F44 has exactly those features at an even lower price than the F19/G2+ sale price (but at 7.68 kHz, not 19 kHz). (And before you go saying "well, then why don't you just buy an F44?" I'll add "I'm seriously considering it!" )

I can't speak for others, but no one can easily insult my intelligence without trying to be an a-hole about it. Explaining something at a seemingly (to you) elementary level would likely help me a lot, and if not me then someone else who comes along and reads it, whether today or years from now. Experience may be the best teacher in terms of really internallizing, but it often is far from efficient. I'm not giving up on experience; just the opposite. But I've learned so much here that has helped me become a better detectorist and I hunger for more. If you're willing to write, reading is the easy part!

Wish I lived closer -- I'd beg you to let me tag along and learn your techniques. Almost every site I hunt is loaded with nails. I know there is good stuff still there but I haven't developed the skills sufficiently to separate them out. Still working those sites, though. When I do find another keeper, part of the satisfaction will be knowing I'm improving. And great finds! Obviously not only do you know what you are doing but you also have a good hunting spot. Keep it up and thanks for sharing.

Mike Hillis recommended the White's ProStars ($79 from White's and their brick-and-mortar dealers if the sale is still in effect; $69 with free shipping from some Ebay dealers). Since I have lots of headphones that hurt my head/ears I decided to wait until I could try them on. When in Colorado earlier this month I got my chance, at Gold-N-Detectors in Golden. Bill there (who knows a ton) reminded me of the rules for buying headphones: 1) make sure they fit and are comfortable. 2) after that, make sure they sound good with your detector. 3) after that, see item 1 above. So I bought the Prostars, and so far so good. (Thanks, Mike.) I still prefer ear buds (recommended by Steve) for quiet locations. I have a used set of UR-30's, but besides them being too loose (weird because most headphones are to tight for me), they don't have adjustable volume controls. There has to be a Goldilocks criterion met for headphones: not too loose, not too tight, just right! You can't find that unless you try them on. Kinda like shoes.

Great pics, Glenn! Thanks for that. I also would have liked to have known about this display before I went to the show (first weekend). I never saw it. I do wish the promoters of these shows (Tucson included) would do a better job explaining/detailing things like where (how about a decent map!), when, and especially what is in the different locations. At Tucson they had over 50 venues but who the hell (I sure didn't) knew what was in each. In Denver, I think most of the show was right at I-25, I-70 intersection area but what was in each of those buildings seemed to require walking and viewing every booth. And it's kinda hot there in early September... Worst is having to put up with all the jewelry, etc. to try and figure out where the raw stuff is. I'm not that interested in a polished skull. I was with my sister and looking for telluride ores. At one booth we went into (in the Mart) my sister asked one of the proprietors (young woman) if they had any Coloradoite. She said she needed to ask the main guy who is (according to her) a miner in Colorado and knew everything about Colorado ores. She came back chuckling but was frank: "he said there is no such thing." My reply: "well, I guess we're in the wrong booth, then." Fortunately my sister was more persistent and asked another rough looking guy in the same booth if he knew where we could get tellurides. He gave us the name of someone in the Miners' Co-op -- outdoor section of the show with many *real*(?) miners selling their hard earned wares. After getting directions we went in search of the recommended person but turns out he wasn't at the show this year. However, the Miners' Co-op people are tight nit and we were directed to a booth (run by Jack McGee and Laura Seymour) where not only did they have several gold telluride specimens, but many were mined by Jack himself deep below Cripple Creek. Good guy and very knowledgeable. I was able to buy a couple specimens (one roasted and one not). In passing I told him about the "Coloradoite doesn't exist" episode and his response was: "well, then he'd better contact the School of Mines and tell them, becasuse they'll be surprised to find that out!"

Maybe I'm the one needing a new calculator.... How much do you want for that old, worn out Garrett?

Trade yuh! We're having record highs here in the Midwest. But in the interests of full disclosure, when you in the Western US were getting cooked in a sauna last month, we had one of our nicest Augusts ever. The bigger issue is that we're in a mini-drought since late July. That's actually OK with farmers here since their rain needs to fall early summer (which it did), and late summer the crops dry and mature. (Rain can be a detriment at harvest-time.) But for us detectorists, dry ground means we either don't hunt, or do and risk angering the public by leaving scarred ground. Last couple weekends I've been working on my panning technique (which needs a lot of work) and my test garden (ditto). What I'm really saying is I envy those of you at the Rye Patch Nugget Hunt. Good fortune in your finds, both in the ground and around the campfire. I retire next August and plan on joining you next year. Postscript: After writing this I realized that there are people in other parts of the US (and world) who are literally dealing with life-and-death weather, for example in Puerto Rico and other parts of the Carribean. Missing a few days of detectoring is insignificant compared to that.

Looks like, while you're at it, you should replace your Garrett calculator with a Minelab.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heathkit "Heathkit manufactured electronic kits from 1947 until 1992." But for some of us (including me), 25 years ago seems like yesterday.

It's not out yet so changes are still possible. I predict they rename it 'Solstice'.

Seeing if I can post the 100th reply. Maybe I'll get a prize! With the response we've seen (here and on other MD sites) just for the sizzle, imagine the frenzy when they start serving the steaks!

I want both, but I'm greedy sometimes. Have they actually said what the weight will be or is that TBD since they haven't finalized the production model? I admit it sure looks lightweight. Some people think 4 lbs is light, particularly those used to swinging 6+ lb PI's. My limited experience has indicated that true balance is only really available for one weight coil. On the Fisher F75 for example, if you could move the battery compartment up/down the shaft then you could potentially balance it for multiple coil weights (as long as they don't get too heavy). But unfortunately all you can do is adjust the length of the lower shaft and adust the position of the arm cup. Those are ok, but not enough, IMO. And Steve has emphasized multiple times that the F75 is as good or better balanced than any detector he's ever swung. So if that's the best currently available, then there is still a lot of headroom for improvement. Still, I'm not holding my breath. Oh, your other point about December availability -- that's smart of Minelab. Yeh, the sooner the better, but with a detector that is affordable to the masses (aka 'weekenders'), Christmasttime figures to be a big (as in profitable) target.

A 'bible' (don't know if it's the only one) on this subject is Cleaning and Preservation of Coins and Medals by Gerhard Welter, Sanford J. Durst (publisher), Rockville Centre, NY (1976). I bought this at a metal detecting online outlet but can't remember which one. I think this was written in German but my copy (Durst pubished) is in Engish. It was created to cover European coins from many centuries but it is surpisingly (to me) applicable to US coinage. I guess there's been a lot of collaboration/cross-study of coin planchet composition across at least one ocean. There is quite a significant difference between making a coin look pretty for the layman and making it presentable to a numistmatist (coin collector). Even micro-scratches which are revealed by careful viewing through high magnifcation can affect a numismatic-value coin significantly, in the wrong direction. Even rubbing a coin with a cotton cloth can introduce micro-scratches. Worse is rubbing a dirty coin since the dirt itself is an abrassive. I cringe watching videos of metal detectorist rubbing the coins they pull out of the ground because they don't have the patience to take them home and soak them. They just have to know what they've found. I agree that if you have something with little or no numismatic value AFTER it is cleaned, then go ahead and make it look nice on your wall/coffee table. It doesn't make any sense to spend $50 to $100 (just guessing here) for professional restoration of a coin worth $5 after that process. To emphasize, an ugly coin which would be worth $5.00 after professional quality cleaning but worth next to nothing in its current state can't be hurt by brute force (for example, abrasive) cleaning. The key is to know the potential value of the find before taking the first step. Numismatists are adament about naturally looking surfaces, whether uncirculated ("mint state") or circulated. They are sleuthes who would make Sherlock Holmes seem like a 5-year-old. They cannot be fooled; they know which coins have been cleaned and which haven't, and the difference is huge. The worse the handling the more value is lost. Just like metal detecting, cleaning coins is a very complicated subject if you really want to be an expert, and although that's not a requirement in all cases, it certainly is, in the long run, if you want to maximize your equity.

Although this post has some relevance to the threads of excitement regarding the just announced Minelab Equinox (wonder what Chevy thinks about that name...), it really isn't directly on topic so I started a new thread instead. You'll see the relevance in my final comments, after the 'facts'. Just back from Colorado and I mentioned in another thread that part of my trip was attending two events by Denver's Eureka Treasure Hunters Club (http://www.eurekathc.org/): The monthly (2nd Friday evening) club meeting and the annual Coinhuna -- free(!) hunt for members only. I slid through a loophole(?) to get to participate in the latter. There were 50-60 attendees of the club meeting and a similar number for the hunt, and most were overlap = same people. Being a detector zealot (thanks at least in part to some posters here who will remain anonymous), I spent some time walking around prior to the hunt to see what detectors people were using. I was surprised at the results of this informal survey, but maybe you won't be. NOTE: I did not do a scientific tally, so the numbers aren't 100% accurate, but they aren't that far off. I do know detector brands, although models (especially older ones) not so much. Here is my view and recollection. I'm assuming ~60 detectors were viewed (some brought more than one): White's (mostly TRX, IDX, DFX) -- 35. Garrett (AT Pro, Ace [various], AT Max, AT gold, older green models whose names I didn't catch/recognize) -- 15. First Texas (F75, T2, Gold Bug Pro -- that was me!) -- 4. Tesoro (Lobo Super Track, other I didn't recognize) -- 2. XP (Deus) -- 2. Minelab, Nokta, Makro, Bounty Hunter -- 0! Ok, what's up with this? First off, it was a competition hunt. But I only saw 9 of the long skinny rectangular coils, 8 White's Bigfeet and one Tesoro cleansweep. That still leaves a whopping 26 White's detectors with tyical general use coils. While in the Denver area I also went by Gold-N-Detectors (in Golden, catch the play on letters?). Now we may be getting somewhere. They have pretty much all of White's current models on display along with several Garretts and about four Tesoros. The only FTP I saw was a Teknetix T2 black. Didn't notice any other brands. They sell detectors at full retail with, AFAIK, no negotiating. So I'm sure not everyone at the club has bought their detectors at that outlet. However, there is a strong influence, and if you see one you like at the store you can just go online and get a discount. There is also a 'mentoring' effect. For example, a person shows up at the club meeting wanting to get into the hobby and is influenced by what detector to get based upon the possessions of the experienced club members. Does country loyalty also play a part? I think it does; just read some comments you see here occasionally. But that's not the whole story. Why only 4 First Texas detectors in the lot? Last I looked Los Banos and El Paso are still on this side of the wall. (oops, might get in trouble for that comment...) There are quite a few things that make the detectorprospector.com site unique compared to (or at least quite different from) other sites: 1) international participation; 2) dominated by gold prospectors; 3) more sophisticated(?) when it comes to understanding and using detectors; 4) more oriented towards the professional end of the spectrum than the hobby/weekender other extreme. Most if not all of these give Minelab (and probably Nokta/Makro) a bigger audience/following. Even if the Equinox is the best thing since sliced bread (and it might be; I'm not taking sides), I don't think it's going to put the other guys out of business. In fact, I doubt it's going to knock Garrett off the back cover of just about every treasure hunting magazine (and that includes ICMJ). There are more things that go into market share than the performance of the product, although it certainly is a big factor.