Simplex / How They Do It ?

[DigsAlot]

On 8/9/2019 at 2:48 PM, Steve Herschbach said:

I’m not too worried about First Texas or Garrett. They are going concerns with good markets and engineers and should be able to adjust. FT in particular just brought a new modern facility online. If anyone stands to lose at this juncture I’d say it’s White’s.

https://www.detectorprospector.com/forums/topic/4942-waterproof-metal-detector-comparison-chart/

 

I see it this way. Tesoro is gone, whites is next without question. Not sure who will be next after Whites. Garret has other biz models to keep them afloat. But against Makro no company is safe, not even Minelab. Invent, update or die. Makro is making detectors the way we want them made. Minelab makes detectors the way they want and we are expected to deal with it. In this fast changing field that could be their  Achilles heel. 

Just my point of view.

Makro I am still looking for a PI the way I want it.

[Steve Herschbach]

Nokta/Makro has flat out said multifrequency is next and that it will be in the Simplex housing. So far they have been doing single frequency and doing it well, but it will take the leap to multifrequency and PI to take them to the next level. At that point lots of people who are still ignoring them will have to perk up and pay attention. To a certain extent they have simply been doing what I expected the Chinese to do for a long time. Ground balancing PI and multifrequency are higher level product though. Garrett has no multifrequency and First Texas has been years without any PI at all. That is what makes White's more disappointing from my perspective - they have had both TDI and V3i for a long time but instead of doing the OBVIOUS and taking the existing tech and making it into the smaller 21st type units we crave, they stood pat with their big box design far past the time when those designs have gone by the wayside. There are sound reasons why the big box White's makes sense from a certain perspective. I mean heck, I liked my old rotary dial phone because I always knew where it was!  But times change and expectations with them, and the fact is those big box designs are starting to really look like dinosaurs compared to something like an Equinox or Simplex. I cannot imagine a younger person used to a cell phone wanting to show his friends a new MXT.

The part many people miss is that these new detector in a sealed pod designs are easy to crank out at low cost in a modern production facility. White's is still essentially hand building detectors in a very old facility. That one thing alone means they are in a real bind right now compared to outfits leveraging 21st century designs and manufacturing processes. I've got a real soft spot for White's so people may mistake my words as criticism... it really is frustration on my part for wanting U.S. companies to succeed and feeling like they are clueless. Typical arrogance more likely; they have always thought they have known better than their customers what their customers want. Fisher and CZ is another example of sitting pat with an ancient analog design instead of translating to a new digital version.

I very much like DigsAlot comment as regards Minelab and their arrogance for the same reason. They have had the tech lead for so long it has let them build some amazingly clunky product and basically just expect people to not only suck it up but praise them for it. There is not a serious water user out there that does not almost completely rebuild an Excalibur into what it needs to be instead of what it is out of the box. That's just one example in a long list of ergonomic nightmares from down under. But Equinox at least shows that maybe that tide has turned. We will see.

[Steve Herschbach]

I would never offer the critique if White’s was in the position you describe by any reason but their own hand. Just ten short years ago they were on top of the game. It’s called not investing profits for the future and instead opting for new paint jobs and decals for too long, plain and simple. Trying to resist the internet via draconian dealer restrictions that ironically were sold as trying to protect dealers hurt a lot also.

Can they do it now? Doubtful unless there is a rabbit that has been worked on the last ten years that they pull out of the hat and wow everyone with, recapturing the lead. They have patents in place that in theory could do the trick. As far as I am concerned however when Carl Moreland left White’s to go to First Texas, the writing was on the wall.

I actually hope they prove me wrong. I am more than willing to eat crow on this issue. 

[Steve Herschbach]

2 hours ago, phrunt said:

I'm surprised China hasn't really put any effort into making their own metal detectors,

Deteknix/Quest mistepped early on but they are adjusting and moving forward. Another company quietly sneaking up to eat the low end market. Single frequency is in a race to the bottom now and it all boils down to low cost manufacturing.

[Cal_Cobra]

I for one am really looking forward to what Nokta will release when their SMF machine debuts.  I for one, do not expect it to be perfect, it will be their .0 release, .0 releases are never perfect, but the fact that their taking on the challenge alone, speaks volumes.  

I suspect that they didn't realize the uphill battle they were taking on in pursuing this venue, but imagine a machine equal to or better then the Equinox in a high quality, lightweight physical package like Nokta (aka Makro) has released with the Multi Kruzer, Anfibio and now Simplex.  I don't complain as most do about the physical package on the Equinox not being up to par, mainly because I'm VERY happy with it's performance, price point and the fact that it's water proof, plus for the first time in the history of Minelab they listened to their consumer audience and finally, made it lightweight.  It's good enough, and there's plenty of after market shaft packages to perfect it if you choose.   

The great thing about the Nokta machines is that starting with the Kruzers, they built a great physical package right out of the gate, and if they can nail their SMF design, with their great physical packaging and keep the weight down, it'll be a homerun IMO.  I use to route for FTP,  but having seen nothing innovative from them for years aside from marketing spin, I gave up on them.  Along came Nokta and I have been nothing but impressed by them listening to us, the customer, world class customer service, and constant improvements.  Believe me, I'm not a fanboy, if I buy a machine and it doesn't work or has issues, I will voice my opinion, and thus far, for the most part, my opinion about Nokta/Makro has been quite positive.  Their machines covering the same ground as many other top level machines used by both myself and some of the best detectorists on the west coast, have just performed.  So with that said, I'm really looking forward to their SMF, sure the Simplex will likely be a great detector for the paltry price point, but I cannot wait to see what the SMF brings to the table.  BTW given the Simplex, perhaps the SMF should be called the Duplex, Triplex or some derivative of that based on the amount of frequencies in play :)

[khouse]

I for one feel that selling a detector through big box stores cheapens the effect of a nice machine.  Just a stigma in my mind........Lol..... BTW - White's last chance was the MXsport.  We were all waiting for the lightweight, multi frequency waterproof machine.  Big let down at least for me.  I went through three of them with Whites then telling me I didn't know how to use it.....  I'm not a Whites dealer anymore..

[kac]

Garrett seems to do well with their security division and they are very conservative and often too conservative on coil designs using the same base forms for multiple machines that is good cost wise but not sure how optimized they are for the different machines. As an example my AT pro i can use the tip or heal of the coil and the target is dead on while the AT Max it is way off as the AT Max is incredibly powerful. I had mentioned before that the AT Max hits the same depth as my AT Pro with a Nel Big coil.

As far as Whites, they have done well over the years as they are often found in most coin and hobby shops. I believe many people buy them because they see them first hand rather than skimming the web and being overwhelmed with so many machines out there.

First Texas seems to do well with the Bounty Hunters as they are all over the place and seem to attract the budget minded and first time buyers. Not sure why they don't do similar distribution of Fisher and Teknetics?

Minelabs made a smart move with the Equinox series to take a chunk out of the all terrain all purpose market but that gap will close especially if the Simplex works well. Will like to see how that pans out.

I think all these companies have too many models that are just too similar and tend to confuse the market. One would think it would be better to reduce inventory on models that don't sell and push more of the better product and reduce the costs/price of those units.

I never understood price justification on similar models that are electronic yet certain ones lack features over the "better" model. The only difference in many cases might be just a rom with a program on it and the cases, poles, buttons all the same. Seems pretty wasteful and a little deceptive.

[PhaseTech]

6 hours ago, kac said:

I think all these companies have too many models that are just too similar and tend to confuse the market. One would think it would be better to reduce inventory on models that don't sell and push more of the better product and reduce the costs/price of those units.

 

Couldn't agree more. As a consumer, less confusion, easier to sort out which model you want, and as a retailer, you can hold more stock and more accessories as you don't have to support multiple lines. Win win for all. 

I have experienced this first hand at least a dozen times in the last week trying to assist customers in finding the right machine - there are simply too many options. 

[Ridge Runner]

What I’m hearing here that we have too many detectors to pick from . Each detector company all have a long long line of detectors they have up for sale..

 Why don’t we just change how detector companies do from this day on .

 Best Buy list their items as if they had only three items in each line of whatever they offer.

 Here’s how they list them. Good, Better and Best . This makes it simple maybe for some but not me .

 If you take a little time and look around you the detector company that has the same thinking is not with us anymore.

 If I make something new I can’t trash what I have already. I’d still like to make some money off that item . I really need to do so that I’ll have the funds to move forward. I need to keep making my customers happy because I want to stay in business. If I sit on my hands and do nothing them nothing is where I’ll be . Them another detector company will be closing their doors.

 Some people wouldn’t be happy if you  were to hang them with a new rope .

 I have to admit my thinking has been down the same road as others but I was wrong.

  Chuck