What Makes Multi-iq So Good?

[Jackpine]

It's been said the the Q in Multi-IQ stands for some kind of electrical thingy.  That is actually just an old wives tale.  What it really stands for is the Aussie version of the UK's Q Branch.  They differ in that instead of Aston Martins they modify Utes with machine guns behind the blinkers.  Currently they are working on adding an invisibility cloak to JP's Ute. 

[mh9162013]

1 hour ago, Chase Goldman said:

Can you articulate better why you are asking

TL;DR: Curiosity, learning and I want to know if there's a conflict of interest. 

 

There are several reasons.

First, I'm naturally curious and like to understand "what's really going on." For example, there's this famous legal case involving Reading pipe and a breach of contract. The case involved a homeowner refusing to pay the final payment for a house. The homeowner claimed that the contract  for the house project required the use of Reading pipe, but the builder used a different brand which was functionally the same. The builder and homeowner litigated whether there was a breach of contract with the "wrong" pipe being used. The court said there was no breach even though the builder clearly did not build the house as specified in the contract. So what was really going on? The builder and homeowner probably had some sort of personal or business disagreement that had nothing to do with the pipe. And for whatever reason, the homeowner wanted to stick it to the builder and used the wrong pipe being installed as his excuse, i.e. it was a pretext for withholding payment. Does it change the legal theory of substantial performance? No, but it's a neat and fun fact (in my opinion) to know.

Second, there's the practical reason for wanting to know why. So when someone recommends detector A over detector B, I want to know why. It may not change whether I listen to them or not, but I can at least make a more informed decision. For example, Brandon Neice loves his Minelab products. Why? Well, at least PART of the reason is because he's probably got a business arrangement with Minelab. As another example, why do many of the prominent "influencers" on Youtube use Garrett products? Again, at least part of the reason is because they probably have a special arrangement with Garrett. So when Aquqchigger or one of the Hoover Boys recommends a Garrett product, you have make sure it's b/c they truly believe in that product, are getting paid to make the recommendation or something in between. My belief is that if they can make a few bucks or get a few free trips or products out of a decision they were going to make anyways, they tell themselves, "why not?" I could be wrong, but that's my theory. But If I'm going to listen to what they have to say, I want to know why they are recommending what they're recommending. For the record, I believe all of these influencers believe in the respective companies they represent, but they might embellish or recommend their respective products with a little bit more enthusiasm than they might otherwise.

Third, I want to learn. I've tried reading plenty of guides and articles, but sometimes, either my question isn't answered or the material is too technical for me. I've tried reading Candy's "white paper" about metal detecting basics and theory. I've tried 3 times, but after the first few pages, it goes way over my head. I've also read the threads and articles about Multi-IQ, but they didn't answer my question that I've asked here. Many of you gave advice and insights that I had not read anywhere before. Yes, the idea was probably expressed elsewhere, but not in the same way that many of you put it. For instance, I never read anywhere, that "assuming you won't search beaches, will dig everything, are willing to put in the time, etc. an AT Pro or Fisher F75+ will find you basically anything the Equinox will find."  Sometimes, wording things differently will get a better understanding in someone else. I saw this firsthand when giving a rookie some detector buying advice. He didn't understand why the question, "hey, I want a metal detector, what do you guys recommend?" could not be effectively answered without more information. I explained to him that we need to know more information, like what his budget was, where he wanted to search, what he was looking for, etc., and then we could provide a better recommendation. I used the following car analogy: "if someone came up to you and said, 'I want a car, what should I buy?' you wouldn't be able to answer it. A sedan, pickup truck, minivan, SUV, sports car, etc. are all vehicles and do a great job at what they're designed to do, but a terrible or so-so job in other applications. Until you know why the person needs a car, you can't give the best recommendation." The light bulb went off with the guy and he explained his need for the metal detector.

[mh9162013]

2 hours ago, Jeff McClendon said:

No metal detector I know of will do the majority of the work for you.

I know that and I've known that for a very long time. But I didn't know how this would manifest itself in reality. For example, I've become fascinated as of late with the "Tesoro roll" where you will adjust the discrimin or other knobs on the Tesoro machine when over a target to help determine what's in the ground. That seems like a lot of fun and a very satisfying way to determine what your detector is picking up. But I also figured this was a skill that took many many hours to master. I also figured that something like...Multi-IQ is a technology that negates the need for much of that skill out of the equation. Or at the very least, reduces the amount of skill needed. So, in my mind, the answer to the question of "what makes Multi-IQ so good?" in relation with Tesoros was "it gives you the ability to do the Tesoro roll without having to put in the time and effort of learning that skill."

Ok, so is the above accurate? Perhaps not, but even if it's accurate, I know it's an oversimplification. But it's an oversimplification that I can understand.

Look, I'm not that bright and I'm slow to figure things out. I love science and engineering, but I'm too slow to figure it out fast enough to make a living doing it. Hence, I relegate it to my hobbies. And instead of annoying a boss or client for being too slow, I get to annoy you guys, I guess.

[mh9162013]

1 hour ago, phrunt said:

For instance, I never read anywhere, that "assuming you won't search beaches, will dig everything, are willing to put in the time, etc. an AT Pro or Fisher F75+ will find you basically anything the Equinox will find."  Sometimes, wording things differently will get a better understanding in someone else.

This is more for coin size objects in my opinion, the Nox will find small gold and targets like that much better than the At Pro and F75 will, due to having higher frequencies available.   I personally think my T2 (similar to F75) will find any coin my Nox will find especially if I was digging everything that beeps, my Nox will just be far more accurate with the ID's helping me to dig less.   It will not find small gold near as well as the Nox.

There is always going to be ifs, buts and maybes ?  Often with metal detecting it seems there is no guarantees, no absolute right answer, there is always variables.

Thanks for the clarification.

[mh9162013]

1 hour ago, Chase Goldman said:

Is that the approach you took with the information that has been provided to you on the subject to date?

No. If you read one of my most recent posts/comments, you'll see that I did do a lot of reading, but didn't understand what I read or they didn't answer my question.

 

1 hour ago, Chase Goldman said:

Have you read any of the external references recommended to you.

I have (even before starting my thread) and they didn't answer all of my questions, hence creating this thread.

 

1 hour ago, Chase Goldman said:

Who would have a conflict of interest?

Anyone who recommends or touts a product or company for reasons that go beyond simply wanting to share an opinion. Often times there is a financial motivation, but not always.

 

1 hour ago, Chase Goldman said:

So have you detected any ulterior motives in what people have posted based on your house contractor analogy?

Not here, no. But my house contractor analogy was made primarily to demonstrate my natural curiosity.

 

1 hour ago, Chase Goldman said:

This seems to be a common theme for you.  Ulterior motive - so what is your conclusion based on what people have posted.  Who is trying to sell a book or detector here?

I'm not using the ulterior motive example to say any of you guys have ulterior motives. I'm just using that as one example as to why I ask "why."

 

1 hour ago, Chase Goldman said:

Have we gone way over your head?  I don't think so.

 You're right, you guys haven't (at least that I can remember).

 

1 hour ago, Chase Goldman said:

We have repeated ad nauseum themes like "there are no absolutes in metal detecting", "knowing your machine well or knowing its "language", regardless of what it is, is important to success" and  "no one detector does it all".

Yes, these have been said over and over, but even fewer examples given. That's why I appreciated phrunt's post so much in that he gave me the answer in a way I hadn't heard before.

1 hour ago, Chase Goldman said:

Do you REALLY want to know why Multi IQ is better or do you want to know why the Equinox is popular?  

That's a good question. I never thought of the issue that way and assumed they were the same question. If you can answer this second question, I'm listening.

 

1 hour ago, Chase Goldman said:

Maybe this exercise will help - Why don't you tell us now what you would tell someone who was pondering an Equinox versus Brand X and feel free to make up the scenario in terms of what the "rookie" needed it for and we can critique your response to the rookie and "fill in the gaps" in your logic or knowledge about the Equinox.  Have you ever previously been asked or recommended the Equinox to anyone?  What was your answer?

Yes, I have recommended the Equinox to someone.

A week ago, before making this thread, if a rookie wanted my advice on what metal detector to get, the following hypothetical dialogue might go something like this: (I hope this answers your question)

Rookie: I want to try metal detecting, what should I buy?

Me: It depends.

Rookie: On?

Me: A bunch of variables. What are you looking for? What’s your budget? Where do you want to hunt?

Rookie: Coins and jewelry in parks and backyards and stuff. And perhaps a beach or two when on vacation. My budget is $200.

Me: I’d recommend the Minelab Vanquish.

Rookie: Really? Why not the Ace series by Garrett?

Me: Those are good detectors, but they’re old tech…like 10 years old. And while they’re good machines, they’re not as modern as the Vanquish. But being modern isn’t what makes the Vanquish a better machine. It’s better because it uses multi-frequency tech, which allows it to more accurately determine what’s in the ground. The better you can determine what's in the ground, the less digging of trash you can do (although you'll still do a lot of it). But most importantly, you say you want to detect a beach. Assuming a saltwater beach, the Ace detectors won’t work in the wet sand…or at least won’t work very well.

Rookie: Oh, ok. Can I go into waist deep water with the Vanquish?

Me: Yes, but I wouldn’t recommend it, as one dunk in salt water and the Vanquish is likely toast. If you want to use your machine in situations where it can get wet, you need it to be waterproof.

Rookie: Is there a waterproof version of the Vanquish?

Me: I wish. There’s a new machine called the Simplex, which is waterproof and is really good. But it’s not ideal for saltwater beaches. What’s perfect for beaches and parks and yards is the Equinox. The problem is, the Equinox is well above your budget…think paying at least $500 for a new machine, likely closer to $600 or $700.

Rookie: Ok, so why is the Equinox $600 and the Vanquish $200?

Me: The Vanquish is just barely $200…or maybe it’s $250. There are several versions of the Vanquish with one being…$400 or so? Either way, the Equinox is more expensive for several reasons. First, it’s waterproof to 10 feet…or is it 10 meters? Not sure, but it’ll handle a dunking in the ocean no problem. Just don’t dive with it. Second, it has wireless capability for headphones. Third, it has special modes or settings to handle other environments, like gold prospecting. The additional settings is useful for experienced detectorists, although I don't fully understand how as I usually hunt with default "modes" built in to the detectors.

Rookie: Gold prospecting? I like the sound of that. But wait, I told you I wanted to search for jewelry, which includes gold rings. So will the Vanquish be able to find those?

Me: Yes. But gold prospecting is different from looking for gold jewelry. The former requires higher frequencies to find the tiny gold nuggets and stuff. Also, gold prospecting machines can usually better handle the “harsher/hotter” soils that gold is often found in. Also, in most machines, gold jewelry will be detected as aluminum trash in many situations. The Equinox and Vanquish are supposed to do a better job of differentiating, but they're not perfect. So to go for gold rings, you'll have to accept a lot of trash being dug up.

Rookie: So the Vanquish can’t really be used for prospecting for gold, got it. Ok, so I can get a decent machine for $200 or so. But what about those machines I see online from China for like $50. Are they any good?

Me: I honestly don’t know. But one of the advantages of buying from a well-known company, like Garrett or Minelab is the communication. They both offer great customer service and warranties…at least compared to some fly-by-night company from China that sells on eBay.

 

I don’t know if that answers your question Chase, but that’s basically the extent of my “recommend a detector” conversations.

[mn90403]

Good thread everyone.

 

[palzynski]

4 hours ago, phrunt said:

...

I hope this helps you understand why for me in my soil conditions not wanting to dig a lot of holes in public land I prefer the Multi-IQ detectors.  The $1 coin is a pretty easy coin to ID, small silvers then things heat up even more with the Vanquish really shining over the other detectors in ID capability at depth for me.  The Bug is still a respectable detector for ID of coins.   The Equinox performs similar to the Vanquish although at times I feel the Vanquish gives a more stable ID than the Nox.  I am hiding the EMI issues with the T2 by discriminating out up to near 40 on the ID's, the EMI seems to mostly be below 40, in an area with little to no EMI the T2's ID's improve so even though It's mostly blocked out by discrimination it's still there messing with the ID's in the background.  Once when we had a power outage in the entire area I went out and tested this same deep coin with the T2 and the difference in it's ID capability was very obvious.

...

I id not pay attention up to now to this MulitIQ ID accuracy at depth feature  . Clearly it can help in a lot of situations when you look for a very specific kind of target , for example big buckles of the 1st WW whose IDs are very different from cartridges , bullets and so on ... . Up to now I was only relying on the audio but the screen ID is much more accurate . Will use this with my Vanquish and will look more at its screen now ?… Thanks  a lot 

[mh9162013]

8 hours ago, phrunt said:

I hope this helps you understand why for me in my soil conditions not wanting to dig a lot of holes in public land I prefer the Multi-IQ detectors.

It does very much, and thank you for the video!

So it seems like it's not just the stable ID numbers that the Multi-IQ provides, but also the ability to get those stable numbers with almost no (or at least a lot less) adjusting of settings compared to a non-Mult-IQ machine.

Thanks again, you've been very helpful in helping me understand the benefits of Miulti-IQ.

[EL NINO77]

In which is better Multi -IQ? .... mainly allows to meet the "one detector setup" and very contradictory detection requirements:

1. excellent sensitivity and ... but at the same time excellent reach for very small, medium, but also larger objects in the field ... On one detection program.

And don't forget the exact ID up to 90% of the maximum Detection depth .. that's based on a certain algorithm to calculate the ID from the different frequency response signals -in the Multy IQ ...

2 ... Excellent separation ,, -.... that cannot be achieved when using low-frequency 5-12 Khz ... detectors ... Because excellent separation requires at least 13-15 KHz .... detector ... and the KHZ will be higher ... it will separate the better detector in the iron.
Multi-IQ can do it on 1 detection program ...- because it works in wide frequency range 7.8hz-39 Khz ...

3. ..Very good work Multi-IQ on various mineralized terrains .. ,,

Why is it essential? .. here's the natural sensitivity of a detectable object to a certain frequency-at which it gives the strongest signal response.

In order to understand why it is necessary to know each conductive low, medium and high conductive object has its best signal response (even 4-7X thing) only within its certain frequency range ...

While on lightly mineralized terrain the detector sees even very weak signals ... and has on those weak signals excellent range .. So ... in difficult mineralized terrain detector sees only those objects that still give a strong enough signal, even though the detection range here will also be lower ..

 So ... All objects that give already weak signals .. I will be very weakly detectable in mineralization ,,, in the worst case their detector cannot detect ...

So here multi I-IQ represents a high quality compromise for balanced signal response for detecting various conductive objects ...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 Equinox goes well with my "4x4" field test ... for a wide range of object sizes ... that are buried at boundary depths ..... The test detector has to do it on one program setting ...
And it proves only a few Top detectors ..