New Update The Legend

[JCR]

Once the LG 24 & other DD coil that was mentioned is released, I hope NM will go to work on a small & mid size Concentric coil. A LG 18C & LG 23C would put The Legend in a class by itself as far as versatility & capability. The in field performance is already there.

[Bill (S. CA)]

16 hours ago, Chase Goldman said:

Thanks but is there a written summary version of the highlights of the latest about the forthcoming update somewhere?  Love the personal touch by Dilek, but I really need the bottom line up front bullet points version.  Just really don't have the patience for watching 26 minutes of talking about something I can easily read in 1 minute and spend the other 25 minutes swinging my Legend.  Lol.

I"m with Chase.  Look, we all love Dilek. She has an engaging personality.  But at the same time, I think most of us just want to know two things: 1. What is contained in the update?  2. When will it be made available?  Powerpoint would be an easy way to accomplish these things. Then Dilek could follow up with that great personality of hers for those of us who want to hang around beyond the facts.

[Flavius Titus]

So if I understand correctly, the iron filtering function will have a value from 1 to 8, so, at 1 it's basically off and the iron will be "heard" better by the metal detector, correct? 

[Rick N. MI]

With iron bias at 1, you will hear more iron using Disc pattern A. 

I'm not sure how stability works yet.

The Legend will be changed and work even better. I'm looking forward to the update and extra coils.

[Jeff McClendon]

6 hours ago, Flavius Titus said:

So if I understand correctly, the iron filtering function will have a value from 1 to 8, so, at 1 it's basically off and the iron will be "heard" better by the metal detector, correct? 

Check out the Iffy Signals video posted under this topic.....Legned Update (misspelled by Dilek, don't ask me to spell any Turkish words!!!)

That video shows how an Iron Filter setting of 8 (even with Recovery Speed on 5) turns a colonial nail and silver dime about 2 inches apart into what sounds like one iron target with only iron target IDs.

A setting of 4 gives two distinct, separated targets with accompanying ferrous and non-ferrous tones. IDs are still showing masking and averaging. So an Iron Filter setting of 4 along with Recovery Speed 5 allows both target's position and conductivity to be heard distinctly.

A setting of 1 with Recovery Speed still on 5 lessened even more, the amount and length of the iron response and the dime was even easier to hear. Unfortunately Iffy Signals did not show target IDs when the Legend's Iron Filter was set to 1.

So, with a setting of 8 on that nail/dime target scenario, the nails iron response is amplified/expanded and masks the dime.  With a setting of 4 both targets are easier to hear but IDs are still skewed. With a setting of 1 that Colonial nail still sounds like iron but with a shorter response (and no falsing!!!!) and the dime is very easy to hear and apparently is not masking the nail enough to make it give non-ferrous false responses.

Who knows what a real in the ground scenario would sound like......looking forward to experiencing that.

[phrunt]

It's puzzling at the start why they were insisting Iron bias wasn't needed, I got quite the telling off for suggesting I would want the feature and now they're showing the benefits on it on the Legend.  I understand they wanted to make the detector easier to use but they wanted to take on the high end detectors so its a feature that seems necessary to do so.

I almost bought a Legend last night, I got to the checkout stage and backed out, the draw was almost there.... maybe once some more coils come out for it I might take the plunge.  It's gained more attention from me lately than the other new model out at least.

The regular updates are part of what I like the most, what you buy isn't what you'll have in 6 months time, it's an improving product and that's great, it's exciting getting new updates.  Sure at the start most of the changelog of the updates was fixing problems but now meaningful improvements are taking place that the bugs are getting ironed out.

[Chase Goldman]

2 hours ago, phrunt said:

It's puzzling at the start why they were insisting Iron bias wasn't needed

To be clear, Simon, they weren’t saying IB wasn’t needed they were saying an IB adjustment setting wasn’t needed because the IB default was optimal. They did incorporate an Iron Bias filter from the get go, you just couldn’t fine tune it. And, yes, no one should have taken you to task for pointing that out to them. 

But here’s the more concerning thing…

The discussion of the update by Dilek and the Iffy Signals testing described by Jeff above clearly shows the illogic in Nokta’s original stance that no IB/IF adjustment was necessary.  Namely, they apparently hard coded the Iron Bias/Iron Filter default to a MAXIMUM level!  Not a split the difference/middle of the road value as you would have expected.  The default IB/IF setting is 8 (and Dilek clearly stated in the FB update video that this corresponds to the IB/IF filter strength hard coded default setting in in all pre 1.08 firmware versions).  That’s really incredible and concerning all at once.

As you can see from the Iffy Signals testing, this setting introduces some really unnecessary non-ferrous masking.

So OF COURSE the user should be able to dial back IB/IF to trade masking for falsing and vice versa.

6 hours ago, Jeff McClendon said:

Check out the Iffy Signals video posted under this topic.....Legned Update (misspelled by Dilek, don't ask me to spell any Turkish words!!!)

That video shows how an Iron Filter setting of 8 (even with Recovery Speed on 5) turns a colonial nail and silver dime about 2 inches apart into what sounds like one iron target with only iron target IDs.

A setting of 4 gives two distinct, separated targets with accompanying ferrous and non-ferrous tones. IDs are still showing masking and averaging. So an Iron Filter setting of 4 along with Recovery Speed 5 allows both target's position and conductivity to be heard distinctly.

A setting of 1 with Recovery Speed still on 5 lessened even more, the amount and length of the iron response and the dime was even easier to hear. Unfortunately Iffy Signals did not show target IDs when the Legend's Iron Filter was set to 1.

So, with a setting of 8 on that nail/dime target scenario, the nails iron response is amplified/expanded and masks the dime.  With a setting of 4 both targets are easier to hear but IDs are still skewed. With a setting of 1 that Colonial nail still sounds like iron but with a shorter response (and no falsing!!!!) and the dime is very easy to hear and apparently is not masking the nail enough to make it give non-ferrous false responses.

Who knows what a real in the ground scenario would sound like......looking forward to experiencing that.

Jeff, any idea whether Iffy varied the IF stability (ST) parameter setting  and if so how varying it affected the masking/falsing  at IF levels less than 7.

Haven’t seen the Iffy Signals video, but if I just read your written account of the IF testing, and I’m struggling to understand the purpose of setting IF >1 at all if the end user was not experiencing any falsing whatsoever on the nail.  Why take the risk of masking any target by setting IB > 1?

Again, I haven’t viewed the video, but a more effective and informative test would be to find an iron target that readily falses at minimum IB/IF settings, then increase IB/IF until the target stops falsing.  Then run a test where you introduce an adjacent non-ferrous target and then see how far you can run up IB/IF until the 

[Flavius Titus]

Thank you Jeff for the explanation, very kind of you.

In many of my soils, as explained many times, I face really deep signals, good coins sounded like iron, and only after removing those 20 centimetres of soil is the signal finally clear.

I will therefore have to figure out whether it is by holding the iron filter at half, or directly at 1, that I will get better results or whether it is the new Audio Gain setting that will give me more satisfaction.

[Jeff McClendon]

25 minutes ago, Chase Goldman said:

To be clear, Simon, they weren’t saying IB wasn’t needed they were saying an IB adjustment setting wasn’t needed because the IB default was optimal. They did incorporate an Iron Bias filter from the get go, you just couldn’t fine tune it. And, yes, no one should have taken you to task for pointing that out to them.

But here’s the more concerning thing…

The discussion of the update by Dilek and the Iffy Signals testing described by Jeff above clearly shows the illogic in Nokta’s original stance that no IB/IF adjustment was necessary.  Namely, they apparently hard coded the Iron Bias/Iron Filter default to a MAXIMUM level!  Not a split the difference/middle of the road value as you would have expected.  The default IB/IF setting is 8 (and Dilek clearly stated in the FB update video that this corresponds to the IB/IF filter strength hard coded default setting in in all pre 1.08 firmware versions).  That’s really incredible and concerning all at once.

As you can see from the Iffy Signals testing, this setting introduces some really unnecessary non-ferrous masking.

So OF COURSE the user should be able to dial back IB/IF to trade masking for falsing and vice versa.

Jeff, any idea whether Iffy varied the IF stability (ST) parameter setting  and if so how varying it affected the masking/falsing  at IF levels less than 7.

Haven’t seen the Iffy Signals video, but if I just read your written account of the IF testing, and I’m struggling to understand the purpose of setting IF >1 at all if the end user was not experiencing any falsing whatsoever on the nail.  Why take the risk of masking any target by setting IB > 1?

Not sure what your question is there at the end of your post……..but as I have said before, I am fairly slow when it comes to thinking quickly and clearly. 

Iffy’s short 3.5 minute video is embedded into Dilek’s misspelled post “Legned Update”

Iffy did not mention or adjust the Iron Filter fine tuning Stability settings on camera.

Personally, I think that some among Nokta Makro engineering were convinced that the Legend was geared toward just above entry level detectorists so keeping iron bias at a fixed high level would make Ferro Check and easy/shallow ferrous trash target identification almost “fool proof” if used according to the procedure and expectations outlined in the manual (not withstanding the YouTuber who did otherwise in about 60 videos that have now been taken down from his site).

Equinox engineers set the Fe iron bias too conservatively and caught a lot of flak for it and “fixed” it when they released the much more robust F2 iron bias setting. 

So, some employees in one company had lower expectations for their detector and its potential buyers while another company had some employees who thought a middle of the road approach was good enough too. Their customers wanted more from the Equinox just like many Legend buyers.