900 Vs Manticore -help?

[dsb]

Hoping for a new knee for Xmas, mri today.  A couple wedges in the right SI joint would be a good addition too but not been all that good. 😃

[PSPR]

11 hours ago, dsb said:

Hoping for a new knee for Xmas, mri today.  A couple wedges in the right SI joint would be a good addition too but not been all that good. 😃

A few years ago I had a lower back problem that kept getting worse.  Had a chiropractor work on it had my doc do a CT scan then suggest surgery.  One day it got so bad I talked to the nurse associated with my chiropractor and she told me to pick up a certain brand of CBD cream at a local supplier.  Honestly, it was like I just got a miracle cure.  After a year or so I don't even need the daily dab of CBD cream to relieve the pain.

Apparently it doesn't work for everyone or every joint condition but it was a miracle for me.  I could hardly believe how well it worked.  And it worked immediately.  Go figure.

[Doc Bach]

11 minutes ago, PSPR said:

A few years ago I had a lower back problem that kept getting worse.  Had a chiropractor work on it had my doc do a CT scan then suggest surgery.  One day it got so bad I talked to the nurse associated with my chiropractor and she told me to pick up a certain brand of CBD cream at a local supplier.  Honestly, it was like I just got a miracle cure.  After a year or so I don't even need the daily dab of CBD cream to relieve the pain.

Apparently it doesn't work for everyone or every joint condition but it was a miracle for me.  I could hardly believe how well it worked.  And it worked immediately.  Go figure.

If it's allowed to say what is the brand name? At 72 my right hip smarts a little now and again.

[strick]

15 hours ago, Chase Goldman said:

If relics are the focus (pimarily mid-conductors), that leans Nox too.  FWIW

I'm just an end user so you guys know more than me but I'm finding the M-core to hit really well on low and mid conductors so I'm not getting what your getting at here...

strick 

[PSPR]

35 minutes ago, Doc Bach said:

If it's allowed to say what is the brand name? At 72 my right hip smarts a little now and again.

I don't know if Steve has a problem with mentioning brand names on such stuff or not.  I guess he can delete this post if he does.  looking at the jar, I got it from a local distributor of a company called American Shaman.  I think they are out of Arizona but you should be able to find their website.  FYI, I am not affiliated with this company in any way.

[Chase Goldman]

2 hours ago, strick said:

I'm just an end user so you guys know more than me but I'm finding the M-core to hit really well on low and mid conductors so I'm not getting what your getting at here...

strick 

As Steve has said previously, since Equinox broke through the simultaneous multifrequency detector signal processing speed barrier with the Multi-IQ platform at reasonable cost (eTrac and CTX had below average recovery speed and where relatively expensive) that was the last significant leap in VLF IB technology offerings.  Everything since then basically emulates Equinox in terms of performance (even M-Core) so the performance improvements (as differentiated from features) appear incremental.

There are no absolutes here because we're splitting hairs - hence use of terms like "edge".  So we're not saying M-core won't hit relics as good as 900 or 800 or XP D2 or Legend (and vice versa), but the setup with TTrace is geared towards giving the deep silver crowd the edge vs. Prospectors  and Relic hunters and at this point it appears (though it is still up for debate - we need a bigger data sample size i e., hundreds more users weighing in) that the additional M-core cost vs. Nox 900 is based on the additional visual ID enhancement features vs. raw performance.  Similar to D2 users paying primarily for the light weight, compact, modular wireless platform and endless reconfigurability vs. raw performance. We're at a VLF IB performance plateau at the moment.

[phrunt]

There is also the more power to the coil and better EMI handling that may help prospectors too, I pinned my hopes on that making the 8x5.5 coil as sensitive as the 6" round Nox coil to small gold, It may not do the job and then I'm left hoping Coiltek make a 5" or 6" coil for the Manticore, Coiltek hinted yesterday on a Christmas wishes video they have new products coming in 2023, hopefully these are Manticore coils.

I was under the impression the Manticore has everything the 900 has, plus more so other than having the little 6" coil that the Manticore doesn't their is no reason the Manticore shouldn't be the better of the two for everything is there? Or am I misunderstanding something.

[Chase Goldman]

 

35 minutes ago, phrunt said:

I was under the impression the Manticore has everything the 900 has, plus more so other than having the little 6" coil that the Manticore doesn't their is no reason the Manticore shouldn't be the better of the two for everything is there? Or am I misunderstanding something.

Simon.  The "plus more" appears to be to help detectorists find specific coin shapped high conductors in trash and perhaps an incremental increase in depth and noise immunity (more power to the coil).  We don't know if that translates to increased depth across the entire conductivity range.  I don't believe there will be an actual performance decrements vs. what Nox does on gold and other desirable mid conductors so, again, individual detectorists have to make their own value judgements on the known incremental improvements vs. 900, whether those are worth $600 more.  It's like the Nox 600 vs. 800 decision - both detectors have the exact same performance, one is just lacking some of the features of the other.  

I will tell you that before the 900 came along, I was considering the M-core at its price point as a down the road purchae primarily because of all the Nox flaws that were fixed and target trace was a nice add.  But once ML introduced the 900 as a lower price point option, the "buy" decision became instantly clear and easy.  Ready availability was the nudge that made it a "buy now" decision.

You should not have pre-buyer remorse or doubts because I knew you were looking at M-core to be the silver slayer replacement for your beloved CTX.  Stick to your guns.

[jasong]

Based on the comments here this Calabash guy's opinion and vids are not to be taken seriously. But this one seems to show a definite difference between the Manticore and 900 to me in terms of detecting mid conductors (potentially gold nuggets?) amongst square nails. One of those nails is raised up closer to the coil too. Also seems to do a little better on the dime, but maybe not quite as much. VID seems more accurate on the Manticore too. Actually, it seemed to get better as the nails got moved closer, somehow?

Everything I'm seeing so far makes me think the Manticore is a superior gold prospecting machine. But that's just based of these random videos. And the marketing of better EMI and increased RX power (I'm not seeing this definitely yet in vids though so far, inconclusive). 

But I'm basically a total greenhorn compared to you guys when it comes to VLF's. I know this is just one random test by one random dude, but what's your opinion, am I missing something here, or isn't the Manticore doing noticeably better here with mid conductors (in this case it's a square tab between 2 nails) in iron trash and wouldn't this be a good thing to have while prospecting trashy nail sites?

 

[Digalicious]

4 hours ago, jasong said:

Based on the comments here this Calabash guy's opinion and vids are not to be taken seriously.

These types of tests can be very misleading. Not so much because of what IS shown and said, but rather misleading because of what ISN'T shown and said.

For example, just because a setting on one detector is set at a particular number, it doesn't mean that same number on another detector has the same characteristics. Iron bias, frequency weighting, and sensitivity are examples of that. Any of those can seriously skew the results of these types of tests.

Also, in these nail tests, and due to how a DD coil works, it's easy to make one detector fail, and another detector pass, simply by ever so slightly moving the nails closer together or further apart. 

Then there is the nail / gold coin test that allegedly shows the D2 hitting the coin (but with poor ID on the gold coin), yet the Manti and 900 don't hit the coin at all. I fully suspect that this is due to user error, or something he is overlooking. He then makes absolute statements about a non absolute test, and claims the D2 is "King" over the Manti and 900. There's just way too many variables involved to claim an absolute truth in these tests.

Well anyway, here's a video of the Legend with the nails / gold coin test. The one nail is even longer than the one Calabash uses in his test. The Legend is hitting the gold coin pretty good, but even more importantly, it gives a proper ID on the gold coin. Plus, I think he would have gotten even better results if that pile of nails wasn't right in front of the test targets lol.

EDIT: On second thought, in Calabash's video, the D2 is showing a ferrous ID on the gold coin. Is that because of that weird D2 disc / ID thing, or is the D2 not actually hitting the gold coin, but rather showing an ID of 7 for the nail(s)? Looks more like the disc / ID issue.