Manticore In Iron (nail Beds)

[scoopjohnb]

6 hours ago, palzynski said:

And then what is your opinion about this iron falsing issue ?   I am interested because I am a European user too , thx

People are really making a big fuss about it. The unit hits hard and deep on all things tiny.

That goes hand in hand with a little bit of false. But actually it is a faint high whistle to draw your attention.

You investigate with the coil and the signal instantly drops into the iron range.

If it is a decent non-ferrous once centered the signal becomes bright and audible.

You really don't miss much with Manty 😉

A pouch full of goodies and I'm just getting the hang of things. She's a keeper!!

[cobill]

1 hour ago, scoopjohnb said:

People are really making a big fuss about it. The unit hits hard and deep on all things tiny.

That goes hand in hand with a little bit of false. But actually it is a faint high whistle to draw your attention.

You investigate with the coil and the signal instantly drops into the iron range.

If it is a decent non-ferrous once centered the signal becomes bright and audible.

You really don't miss much with Manty 😉

A pouch full of goodies and I'm just getting the hang of things. She's a keeper!!

Scoop,

Yes they are blowing this out of proportion. This YT video was released 11 days ago. Doesn't look that hard to me after reading the manual!😂

 

[steveg]

19 hours ago, Chase Goldman said:

I don't have expertise on that.  Perhaps setting up a live, interactive, scheduled zoom or teams session for DP members to participate in would be a good option.  Anyone else who has any ideas along these lines, please feel free to chime in.

Chase, a zoom meeting or Google meet is a GREAT idea...

But, I also decided since posting yesterday that perhaps my arrogance may have gotten ahead of me, in thinking that I have anything of enough value to say, that would be helpful to anyone.  I know that as a long-time FBS user, there are things in my head that I think would help, in terms of translation over to the MC...and an "interactive" discussion would be good in that regard.  But on the other hand, I would hate to have folks say "I wasted my time joining that meeting thinking I'd learn something, and that bozo didn't tell me anything I don't already know!"

So, not sure what to do...

Steve

[steveg]

18 hours ago, GB_Amateur said:

I've yet to see anyone customize the ferrous limits.  The case you make may well be the best case solution, but I'm reproducing a page from the manual:

Note the graphics in the right column under point 4., as well as the instructions there.  It appears both the starting points and widths (5 bins?) in each of the upper and lower ferrous limit sections as well as their amplitudes/magnitudes can be adjusted.  How much will this help ID'ing falsing iron?  I don't know.  Does anyone yet know?  (That question is rhetorical, BTW.)

Maybe I'll swing down to Oklahoma and get some lessons from Steveg after we both get our units.  He may think he writes long posts but I can hold my own against the best here on that front.  But I promise to zip my lips and listen, at least for the first 15 minutes or so.  😄

Meanwhile I hope Minelab is paying attention.  They made some appropriate software updates for the Equinox 600 & 800.  Let's see that R&D money they brag about continue to be put to good use here, please.

LOL!  You are more than welcome to head down my way; I'd love to chat/learn/hunt together!

Steve

[steveg]

17 hours ago, strick said:

Table topics is when a bunch of professionals with advanced degrees get in a room and voice their opinions and experiences on certain topics...you can sit for hours discussing something that is totally apparent to some and outer space to others.

Someone threw jet fuel on this thred when I wasn't looking lol. I started using the CTX in 2014 and have countless hours on that machine. If one is familiar with the CTX then they will have a shorter learning curve on the Manticore. The Manticore is also related to the Nox 800 and those that have used the 800 will have a shorter learning curve as well. But I feel the machine is closer to a super sensitive CTX than it is to the Nox. 

That being said it is not a perfect fine tuned machine in most environments as of yet. My feeling is that it could still use some work...I have been posting positive on it since I've had it because it's been working very well for me so far...EXCEPT for today. I hunted two spots..Urban areas with lots of EMI and old dirt with lots of iron and trash...Look at the quarter below with the eagle button and how much it's deteriorated in that soil. I really struggled with the machine today. Even did  factory reset. The problem for me today was not deep iron targets but rather lots of falsing on shallow targets. I honestly don't know if there ever is  place where you could max out the sensitivity on this machine. The highest I've ever been able to run it was on 26-27 and thats pushing it. It gets too chattery if you run it any higher where I live.

This machine is very sensitive to iron and ground conditions. So far I have not had many problems with deep iron it's the shallow falsing that is an annoyance. I have not been running the sensitivity lower than 24 which may be my problem. I manual ground balance frequently. Below is a picture of  iron nail/spike with large head. It was close to 12 inches deep. The TT was pegged all the way to the right and read 99 on the VID and gave clear high tone signals 3/4 the way around the target but did give a audible iron grunt with red line...I knew it was iron but dug it anyways just to prove it to myself... 

i'm out of time...I'll be back...tumbled some finds and a couple surprises. 

strick 

 

14 hours ago, strick said:

 One more thing I will add quickly. I have not found any difficulty judging the size of targets such as tin cans  and low conductor pieces of can slaw in the mid teens etc...I think it’s a little deceiving looking at it on videos as compared to in person actually running it. Also the bottle caps are easy to identify... most wont even give a tone when hunting in disk mode just like the ctx....yeah there are a few stragglers that will read just outside that lower limit zone but if it’s not on the center line it’s most likely a junk target. It’s been great on bottle caps when hunting in parks. Even the steel caps covered with foil are not a problem once you have dug a few. We need more users right now..

strick

Excellent and informative posts, strick...

Steve

[steveg]

13 hours ago, scoopjohnb said:

The 2 D screen takes a little getting use to, as I’m a CTX guy.

 

Can you elaborate a tad on this, speaking from one FBS guy to another?  I do NOT have an MC yet, have NOT read the manual in detail yet (I find it easier to examine manuals in depth, only with the item in-hand).  But, with that said, I've been pondering/imagining in my mind what I know about FBS and smart screens, and what I THINK I may know about the MC 2D screen, and would be curious to hear what "takes getting used to," as this implies there are differences that are a bit "confusing" at first?

Steve

[steveg]

8 hours ago, fishersari said:

Enhanced audio theme with rich profile

My concern is the deep faint signal "missing' when using the audio setting above.

Are you saying that when using "rich," that you fear that the modulation of the signal (quieter with depth) might lead you to miss some very deep (quiet) targets?  I've been thinking about this myself, as it relates to the MC, as I LOVE modulated audio, and LOVE what I've heard on a couple of videos in terms of the modulation of the "rich" audio. 

To elaboarate...I had debates about such audio modulation years back, with other Minelab Explorer users (when I was a relatively inexperienced Explorer user).  When I first was getting used to settings on that machine, I arrived at what I preferred rather quickly, which was to set my "modulation" on the Explorer (I forget what it was called..."audio limits" or something) to a setting of "7," and for me, this was perfect (so I thought).  BUT I was talking to/learning from a VERY experienced Explorer user -- much moreso than I was at the time, i.e. a "guru" -- who INSISTED that running that setting at 7 (on an Explorer the lower the number you placed that setting at, the greater the modulation) was a HUGE MISTAKE, if one didn't want to miss the deepest whisper targets...and as such, he always ran his "modulation" or "audio limits" or whatever it was called, maxed out at 10, at all times, for that reason (i.e. deep targets sound just as loud, or at least nearly as loud, as shallow targets).

Finally, I HAD to settle this for myself; debating it was just not going to settle it in my mind.  SO, I decided to test; I set up a test garden, buried a bunch of coins and such at various depths, and then ran my Explorer over the deeper coins in my garden -- the ones that were barely detectable.  I started by running the unit at my preferred "7" setting, and then switched it, and ran it at his "10" setting.  I could hear the deep ones fine, either way.  YES, his "10" setting made it much louder, but the negative was that of course it gave little IF ANY information as to whether it was a 3" target or a 9" target.  At my setting of "7", it was MUCH quieter, but still very "audible," and the benefit for me is that I KNEW that the target was deep, due to the modulation.  This is HUGE, to me...there are sites I ONLY want to dig deep targets, and having everything sound "loud" but "shallow" drives me nuts!

My conclusion, after all that debating, and then testing it for myself?  We were probably BOTH right -- in that he probably had some hearing loss that affected his ability to hear the deepest targets, if he was set at "7."  For me, however, with my younger ears, I had no problem hearing a fringe-depth target with the unit set at "7," so in the end, the "right" setting for him was not the best for me, and vice-versa...

SO -- long story short, I'd like to hear your thoughts here...as this is very important to me...

Steve

[fishersari]

3 hours ago, steveg said:

Are you saying that when using "rich," that you fear that the modulation of the signal (quieter with depth) might lead you to miss some very deep (quiet) targets?  I've been thinking about this myself, as it relates to the MC, as I LOVE modulated audio, and LOVE what I've heard on a couple of videos in terms of the modulation of the "rich" audio. 


SO -- long story short, I'd like to hear your thoughts here...as this is very important to me...

Steve

I am still testing the 2 audio themes, Regarding increasing sensitivity in EMI even Normal theme + Rich profile suppress a certain amount of charter hence I can increase 1 sensitivity value sometimes. With enhanced audio its suppress even more, I'm thinking more than 60% of audible chatter gone + Rich audio theme i can increase about 1 or 3 sensitivity value.

I also love the Rich audio with 1 region All tones very very much 😁. Its awesome man but need to use headphones. The speaker does not do justice for Rich audio for me. I will be using it in most of my hunt. For now I'm using 2 tones + Simple profile for Normal vs 1 region all tones + Rich profile for Enhanced audio looking fault/weakness in enhanced audio. I hope it just my imaginations that I will lose deep/faint/weak signal when using enhanced audio.

With manticore I'm using a lot of the long press noise cancel feature.

[Dug D]

I think you could test the faint volume with air tests, I always lower iron volume a lot, but still here it, and keep non ferrous higher. I like it better than using discrimination and nulling out a threshold tone on iron.

[steveg]

Yep, air test can kind of do it, too...but I've come to prefer test garden testing.  Once you learn your test garden, and how each coin responds to a given detector, it's very informative to then see how a different machine responds to those different coins. 

As just one example...I have an 8" quarter in my garden that is harder to detect than the adjacent 10" quarter (probably a fleck of iron near the 8" quarter, or something like that...)  I know this, and so when I am testing a new machine, it's always informative to hit those two coins in succession...and compare to responses (that I have in my mind) from other, prior machines...

Totally agree on the iron volume; I want it THERE, but quiet, and definitely prefer that over discriminating iron, and getting just a threshold null...

Steve