Anybody Seeing Depth Issues With The Manticore Update?

[abenson]

2 minutes ago, phrunt said:

Sorry about the bad lighting, but there is most certainly something wrong with your firmware, it really makes no sense either but with mine, as is meant to happen when you change stabliser off 0 it's meant to turn on, and off when you go back to 0, yours doesn't do this and that to me makes absolutely no sense, you still have a software problem.  Maybe your Manticore has bad memory corrupting the files as what you're getting is weird, it makes no sense, they should all behave the exact same running the same software unless something is corrupting the software and in your case it sounds like that's exactly what's happening. 

I'm just trying to translate your issue into computers as that's what I know and for example if you were to have a computer with a bad memory module and you flash it's bios with an update you will get corruption in the update, it could be as simple as text doesn't come out how you expect or it could be much more of an issue causing the flash to fail, but a common thing was something like the bootloader screen normally saying American Megatrends AMI Bios version 101.10 or something, and after the flash with the bad memory it would say A%mer-can M^gatrends AM7 Biov ver0sion 1.~!.`10 with the code being damaged in the transfer by the bad memory.  This seems to me like it's what's happening with your detector, something similar.  I don't think your problem is firmware related, I think you've got a faulty detector.

 

 

According to Brass Medic you can turn the stabilizer filter OFF even with the stabilizer setting at 5. It adds a second filter to the stabilizer setting. I think mine doesn't auto turn on and off in the video because I started with it off. If that makes sense.

[phrunt]

2 minutes ago, abenson said:

According to Brass Medic you can turn the stabilizer filter OFF even with the stabilizer setting at 5. It adds a second filter to the stabilizer setting. I think mine doesn't auto turn on and off in the video because I started with it off. If that makes sense.

ahh yup, I was able to replicate your detectors setting behaviour.  Damn, I was hoping it was as simple as you needed a replacement detector.

[abenson]

1 minute ago, phrunt said:

ahh yup, I was able to replicate your detectors setting behaviour.  Damn, I was hoping it was as simple as you needed a replacement detector.

Well for now I'll just stick with the old version as it clearly performs better for me.

[Silver Saver]

Great video showing the performance decrease you are having with the new update @abenson   Also great channel!

Others may not see the same issue, but at least they can be aware and test for themselves.

[Chase Goldman]

This is similar to Deus 1 in Gold Field with the Iron Audio Reject Filter (similar but different than discrimination).  Works fine in thick iron in mild soil - it breaks up iron target signals.  But if you use it in ferrous mineralized soils like heavy magnetite, then both ferrous and non-ferrous targets get chopped up.

[UT Dave]

2 hours ago, abenson said:

After going back to the previous software version on the Manticore, doing some testing and then updating to the most recent version, I apparently had a bad update the first go around. Because now the most recent download is much better than the first one I tried.

However, I'm still seeing some weird stuff with the update and one of them is depth issues in my soil. It's not as bad as the first try, but it's still very apparent to me after hours of testing. 

 

 

Very helpful.  Thanks Andrew!

What you were describing on your first update, was worse than what I was seeing.  But what you show in the video, after your second round, is exactly what I was seeing.  I'm back on the old version and liking it better too.  In ten hours of turf hunting on the update I didn't dig anything deeper than 4-1/2".  In two hours after rolling back I dug several coppers between 5 and 8-1/2".  I don't believe that is coincidence.  And, I didn't like the change in the audio with the update.   Even with stabilizer and filter turned off, the audio was not the same and I didn't like the change.  I could have adjusted to that but the feeling I was losing real depth is why I switched back and I'm satisfied in my own mind that it wasn't just my imagination or cognitive bias.

- Dave

[abenson]

4 minutes ago, UT Dave said:

 

Very helpful.  Thanks Andrew!

What you were describing on your first update, was worse than what I was seeing.  But what you show in the video, after your second round, is exactly what I was seeing.  I'm back on the old version and liking it better too.  In ten hours of turf hunting on the update I didn't dig anything deeper than 4-1/2".  In two hours after rolling back I dug several coppers between 5 and 8-1/2".  I don't believe that is coincidence.  And, I didn't like the change in the audio with the update.   Even with stabilizer and filter turned off, the audio was not the same and I didn't like the change.  I could have adjusted to that but the feeling I was losing real depth is why I switched back and I'm satisfied in my own mind that it wasn't just my imagination or cognitive bias.

- Dave

Dave, thanks for adding your thoughts on the update. We live close enough that I think it kind a confirms there's a real difference in performance between the 2 software versions in our soil type. I think when Minelab says they have added overall stability to the Manticore, it's having a negative effect in ground with moderate to high mineralization and is something that can't be turned off. Good targets that are deeper are now starting to be consumed by the soil and sound like iron.

[steveg]

20 minutes ago, Chase Goldman said:

This is similar to Deus 1 in Gold Field with the Iron Audio Reject Filter (similar but different than discrimination).  Works fine in thick iron in mild soil - it breaks up iron target signals.  But if you use it in ferrous mineralized soils like heavy magnetite, then both ferrous and non-ferrous targets get chopped up.

This -- while it may or may not be the proper explanation for what abenson is experiencing -- makes ALOT of sense to me, logically.  And it further cements the idea that UNTIL I really learn the Manticore, I should NOT update to the new version, given the irony-red dirt here in Oklahoma.  I think I need to get a very good feel for the machine's performance, BEFORE I consider trying the new version, so that I will have a sense if switching to the new version degrades my performance, given my irony soil.

My apologies if the question I'm about to ask has been noted already, or shown in abenson's video (that I am about to watch), but...

Is abenson's performance degradation when using the new version, true ONLY with silencer "on" (or however that works)?  In other words, I would have HOPED that the new verison would perform "the same" as the old version, UNTIL you turned on the "silencer."  But otherwise, with silencer off, nothing would be different.  That way, you could essentially use it in the "old" configuration, simply by keeping silencer "off," but then, if you are in a very heavily iron-polluted site (where Minelab recommendes using "stabilizer"), you could turn it on and see if it helps IN THAT SPECIFIC SITE.  But otherwise, you could turn off silencer and essentially achieve the same performance as the pre-update version.  This is what I EXPECTED to be the case.  I am assuming that abenson found this NOT to be the case?  In other words, even with silencer OFF, he was still seeing degraded performance?

Steve

[steveg]

abenson -- OH, while I was typing my question, I think you may have just answered my question in your most recent post (that posted while I was typing).

SO -- to reiterate, EVEN IF you keep everything "new" turned off (stabilizer, stabilizer filter, whatever), it STILL performs worse for you than the original?  In other words, you can't "turn off" a setting and get it back to the performance you were used to with the old version?

Steve

[abenson]

7 minutes ago, steveg said:

abenson -- OH, while I was typing my question, I think you may have just answered my question in your most recent post (that posted while I was typing).

SO -- to reiterate, EVEN IF you keep everything "new" turned off (stabilizer, stabilizer filter, whatever), it STILL performs worse for you than the original?  In other words, you can't "turn off" a setting and get it back to the performance you were used to with the old version?

Steve

That's correct Steve. I think Minelab has added an overall stability feature on the Manticore that can't be turned off in the latest software version. I could be totally off the mark, but that's what is seems like to me. It's probably nothing to worry about in mild soil.