Depth Issues After Software Updates

[GB_Amateur]

1 hour ago, abenson said:

Chuck in the case of the Manticore, it simply came down to settings that worked on the previous software, wouldn't work on the new software. I now use the latest software with no issues, but it required me to make drastic setting changes to make it work in my soil. User error? Probably, but it does irritate me that these companies make changes to software without testing the results in multiple soil types to make sure it's going to work.

Thanks for that clarification, Andrew, and I'm glad you found a solution.  You certainly seemed to have earned it.  Your experience is one more reminder (and I hope I have it etched in my brain now) that with these detectors that have so many adjustment options, it's vitally important to learn which ones are likely to matter and then fiddle with them at a new site to get things fine tuned.  That's true whether an update has been installed or not.

Apparently these software updates can effectively take one detector out of your hands and put another one there, even if cosmetically it's the same detector.  But I do appreciate that Minelab (do all companies?) allow us to back out of an update and revert to the old software/detector.  It certainly can be frustrating/exasperating for something that works to be seemingly taken away with no option to get back to the start.  Reversability is always high on my pre-change checklist.

[DSMITH]

7 hours ago, DIG5050 said:

It is frustrating when things go wrong through no fault of your own.  I certainly get that.  It is possible that Nokta has made revisions to the board for whatever reason that makes the older units slightly different than current production.  Every manufacturer can and does do this at times.

As of 10-28-2023, Nokta has included V1.13 with the update tool, as well as other firmware releases back to 1.05. The release notes say that V1.13 - "This update allows for easy switching of the Bluetooth headphones connection between AccuPOINT and The Legend, and better compatibility with your devices."  Maybe Nokta has already determined that some devices (Legends) may not be fully compatible with the V1.11 firmware update.

Here is what I would do:

First, I would remove all previously installed versions of the updater tool from your PC.

Next, I would download the latest installer form Nokta, and install V1.13, perform the factory reset, and then see if the problem is corrected.

In answer to the question regarding the update 1.11 "already being there". If/when you downloaded the installer, V1.11 was most likely included, and that is why it appeared in a list of possible firmware updates to load onto the Legend.

I hope some of this is helpful and you can get back to detecting with your machines.

I had issues updating my Apex when the last firmware release and the USB port was the culprit. It was frustrating to have the unit become "bricked" and then later corrected when a different port was used.

Well here is the thing which I did not mention, I have done as you stated went through and deleted all old update files and all old driver files and did a complete clean of everything in my PCs and then downloaded a new fresh update file from Nokta's site, it did not help in fact I have done this as stated above probably 20 times to no avail, I also even went as far as purchasing a new PC just for the purposes of the updates of the Legend and the only version that has been put on that PC is a fresh download of the 1.11 software update it has not helped, I have tried reverting back to 1.09 it did not help, as I stated the only thing that did help is I used one of my PCs which had the older first update installer on it and installed a 1.80 version that a friend sent me (I believe that was a beta version that was sent to testers) none of us normal end users never knew this version existed it was never released to us normal end users that 1.80 version was when I finally was able to start seeing good things again.

When I was sent this loaner control pod I reinstalled 1.11 on my older Legends to do the comparisons because I wanted to do apples for apples comparisons not apples to plums, when I re installed 1.11 on my two older Legend everything went sideways again, I did this re install using a brand new PC that has only ever had one download of the 1.11 in it, it is not normal at all

I have seriously thought about downloading the 1.13 version and install it on one of my Legends just to see if it changes anything or jars something loose in the brain of my one of my older Legends just to see if it works any different

 

@Jeff McClendon yes you did offer which i do appreciate that, and I may end up sending the control pods to you but I want to give Nokta a chance to fix this issue how ever that may end up being, I figure all the pains I am going through it may just help others to find out why their Legends lost depth also among other issues (maybe), I do not believe my problems are unique to just my two legends, based on discussions I have had with others that are seeing the same things I have been seeing, those that I have talked to with similar issues like I have had all have older Legends and are pretty much seeing the same things I have seen.

[Jeff McClendon]

Nokta sent you a properly working system control unit. You tested it with your coils and everything looks good, right? You put the same coils on your other two Legends and things are not good, right?. If the coils are good then your two Legend system control units are the issue.

Put all three system control units in one box and ship them to Andy O’Neal at the Nokta USA Repair Center and let him figure it out. Make Nokta fix it instead of you trying to make videos. Let Andy make a video.

I’ll send you the money for shipping.

Your purchase prices for your Legends included a little money for 3 year warranty coverage. Make Nokta honor that warranty.

[midalake]

On 10/25/2023 at 6:58 PM, Jeff McClendon said:

I am saddened by what I see being reported as depth issues after performing online available software updates for detectors like Deus 2, Equinox 600/800 and of course, everyones whipping post, the Legend.

Software updates are a rather new reality in detecting.  I fully believe an update has the possibility of going wrong. I myself experienced this with my first update of the Equinox 800. I thought someone broke my detector. Flashed back and did a new install and everything was fine! 

I do not think this is the norm. But is an issue that needs to be watched. I can fully understand how a detector may operate different on an update. But when it goes wrong like in the case of mine, it had nothing to do with new detector settings or modes. 
I highly recommend someone is very into their machine before doing any updates. Otherwise, how do you really know the differences of the update?  In July I opted not to update my Deus 2. I didn't think 4 or 5 times out with the machine after a layoff was enough time to be 100% up to speed and do an update. I will get that done when I am fully up to speed on the machine and can-do proper fringe depth testing after the update.   

[Past Member]

On 10/28/2023 at 4:18 PM, DSMITH said:

 

I have seriously thought about downloading the 1.13 version and install it on one of my Legends just to see if it changes anything or jars something loose in the brain of my one of my older Legends just to see if it works any different

 

 

Trying 1.13 would make for an interesting test.

Any word on that yet?

[DSMITH]

39 minutes ago, Digalicious said:

Trying 1.13 would make for an interesting test.

Any word on that yet?

have not tried it yet still thinking about it

[DIG5050]

I would try the 1.13 update on one of the pods. Make sure you perform the factory reset after updating the firmware. This initializes settings and other variables for proper functioning of the update. See if it corrects the operation for that pod. 
 

If not, in lieu of the ability to remove a battery connection from the pod circuit board, one last suggestion would be to power on one control pod and let the battery go completely “dead”.  This should force a “hard reset” when battery is recharged. Fully recharge the pod and see if it resolves the problem. 

If none of these work,  then I support the suggestion above made by Jeff McC.  regarding Nokta warranty service. Perhaps you can use the Nokta loaner while yours are being serviced. 

If others are having this problem as you mentioned, then further investigation by Nokta is in order. It sounds like your problem may not be an isolated case.

Perhaps some kind of firmware-hardware incompatibility exists on some units. 

[bklein]

On 10/25/2023 at 8:05 PM, phrunt said:

Flash roms and EEPROMS that are used for this sort of thing are very reliable for data integrity.  I've got 15+ year old motherboards where the firmware on them is still holding as new, the same bios on there perfectly fine even though they're rarely if ever used.  There is little to worry about in regards to this.  If it were a problem our cars and everything would be playing up, their software is stored on the same stuff and has been for 10+ years ? 

 I worked over 25 years at Western Digital and over the years found instances where the programmable part - flash/eprom whatever - had bits that were not (re)programmed, which resulted in unpredictable behavior.  Basically situations where the full capacity was not programmed. In such cases the actual and intended areas differ and a CRC check is misleading as it is checking short of full capacity.

  

 

[phrunt]

1 hour ago, bklein said:

 

Wow, that's pretty pitiful, that could only be the fault of the flash tool you would think not checking and verifying every stage of the flash? Fortunately, it's extremely rate anyone had to update the firmware on the hard drives as an end user.    If the tool checked it, and found it differed it should have errored and reflashed.  Was this in the early days more so than more recently?  Surely they resolved it.