Axiom 13x11 GPX 4000 14x9 Coiltek Depth Test Deus 2 Also

[Steve Herschbach]

Well without getting much into this it's both. My TDI vs MXT was comparing a low power PI to a good VLF. Even with high power PI it is a generally known fact that PI compares poorly to VLF in air tests because it is the ground that accentuates the difference between the two. But target size is also very important, and as the targets get larger a PI will pull ahead of a VLF even in the mildest soils. There is also the wild card of the GPZ 7000 to consider. Some might be considering it a PI, and if so it does beat VLF across the board easily even in mild soil on all but the tiniest targets. But it's not actually a PI per se but a whole different beast, Zero Voltage technology.

This is one area where air tests are applicable as being the same as the mildest of mildest soils. Test a GPX 6000 on a dime size target against a Manticore and see what you get.

Other than that seems like a tempest in a tea pot. PI people usually like PI and VLF people like VLF and whatever floats your boat I say. In general, for most people my old saying does work pretty well "Use a VLF when you can and a PI when you have to." Thanks for the plug Chase. 

[Jeff McClendon]

Okay....as I wipe my brow from exasperation.........

I did this little 2-Part comparison of these two PIs mostly for me. The GPX 4000, 4500, 4800 and 5000 are detectors that I am familiar with. The Garrett Axiom is fairly new for me. However, I have already seen in person what it can do on smaller sub gram gold nuggets after finding some on my last trip to Arizona. I did not know what else it might be capable of so I did these tests.

I also thought maybe some others on this forum might be interested in what the Axiom was reasonably capable of too.  So I figured I would post these comparisons on here just as a public service.

I immediately got comments about which one is the winner....etc, which was the farthest thing from my mind.

Now this has even sparked a how deep can a VLF go and even a VLF versus PI depth debate. OK.

Like Chase said, these two tests showed one thing only. They showed what these detectors could do on a hand picked set of targets, at hand picked depths at a hand picked moderately mineralized site that was semi frozen, meaning there was substantial moisture in that erosion cut.  Maybe the results would be different at the same spot on a dry soil day and at temperatures well above freezing. Who knows.

The second test does show basically a two to one (plus or minus an inch or so) depth ratio between the PIs used and the VLF used. Cool.

What I wanted to find out for myself was basically......is the Axiom a competitive PI detector on sub gram and multi gram targets compared to a GPX 4000 with the 4000 using timings and settings that are currently still available on the GPX 4500 and 5000. Like I said repeatedly, Deus 2 was just along for the ride.

Y'all can keep going with whatever you want to prove or not.

[Lead Detector]

16 minutes ago, Jeff McClendon said:

So I figured I would post these comparisons on here just as a public service

I personally appreciate when people posts tests like this. It's one more piece of information we can throw in the pool of variables, so we can come to our own conclusion.  Thank you

[Chase Goldman]

Jeff/Steve and everyone else,

Agree, tempest in a teapot. 

Like I said, I appreciate these controlled tests and discussions for what they are and do not discourage them.  I, for one, was interested in the PI performance comparison of Axiom vs. GPX because it was tangible apples to apples comparison.  But also appreciated the VLF comparative data Jeff provided.  So don't hesitate to continue to do provide the information, and call it as you see it (based on the data you collected) Jeff.

Folks just need to be careful about making and stating definitive general conclusions based on extrapolation of specific results to other situations beyond what the tester intended, that's all.   There are too many variables and too many competing effects.

 

 

[phrunt]

3 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

This is one area where air tests are applicable as being the same as the mildest of mildest soils. Test a GPX 6000 on a dime size target against a Manticore and see what you get.

Very true, the 6000 is one of those machines you can get your pick amazingly close to, as is the Algoforce and I suspect the SDC2300, all the machines geared more towards smaller gold, the earlier GPX series on the other hand, keep that pick well away! 

Put the GPX 5000 with an 11" mono into Coin and Relic timing and put it up against the Manticore with 11" stock coil on a coin and see the results!  Unfortunately Jeff you won't benefit from this Coin and Relic timing, it only works in mild soil environments, it's only on the 4800 and 5000 too.

[EL NINO77]

Jeff I think you did well to post your in depth tests of *AXIOM, and GPX and Deus2/Manticore...

I believe that all the participants of the discussion would get the same results of the test...if they were done in your field conditions....

Different terrains bring different deep results and that's a fact... that cannot be refuted...

on the contrary, even in easy terrain, you can come across a place of old settlement, civilization .... where a lot of ceramics, coal, and remnants of iron corrosion can extremely,, change and greatly reduce the detection conditions... for VLF detectors...

this is an area that I am very interested in..., because there detectors can still find targets that are masked by such mineralization of the terrain....

I think that a significant feature of PI detectors is the ability to work effectively even on ethereally mineralized terrain, where VLf detectors lose strength and advantages as well as stability of detection...

there are simply situations where the PI detector will always be the best....

comparing PI detectors and VLF detectors is like comparing apples and pears...it's never the same....

as the owner of a PI ATX in which I see a strong detection potential... I'm very glad... that Garret made an Axiom that performed very well in tests... and competes with PI Minelab detectors... and in my opinion it can be even better than slightly larger coils will be available for him.../14-18"/..

And VLF detectors? ...of course it doesn't matter, they are constantly improving "so that they work well even in more demanding mineralization conditions...and that is also a good thing..

A good thing for all of us...who like detection...

as for the range of the detectors for a 5-gram coin... in the near future, I will be able to make some comparisons on such targets on different mineralized terrains... since we now have several different mineralized...test fields...