Rose Head Spike? And A "huh"?

[UT Dave]

This morning I went back to a spot I have found some 1920's era stuff mixed in with clad a couple of times before.  Didn't find anything really remarkable or valuable today.  But, definitely things that are interesting!  Both of them have me puzzled.

I'm the furthest thing from an authority on the identification here, but I'm pretty sure this is a rose head spike.

 

When I pulled it out I couldn't help cueing Gary Drayton "that's an OLDIE MATE!" 🤣. Google gives me a date range on these that would make it almost doubtfully early for the Salt Lake Valley.  

So, would love more experienced opinions on my ID and  the possible latest date.

But the thing that spike is sitting on is even more weird.  Thought it was a large fishing weight when I first dug it.  Which, in itself, would be kind of bizarre, for where I found it.  Not until I got it home and went at it perhaps a bit too aggressively with a brass wire brush, did I see some strangeness about it.

It is lead.  Weighs 7 oz on the dot.  First of all, it's been hit with a shotgun blast.  See the tiny craters and even a piece of very small birdshot still stuck in it?

 

Weird enough to have been hit with shot.  But I'm pretty well versed in shotgun patterns.  Have spent many an hour at the pattern board testing predator loads.  And that little shot pattern is strange.  It's tiny shot.  It's a tight pattern.  It didn't hit very hard.  Tiny shot disperses with distance and such a tight cluster on such a small targe is fairly unusual unless at very close range.  But at very close range a bird shot load from a shotgun should have hit much harder.  I suspect it was not a shotgun but a pistol loaded with "snake shot".  At very close range.  Just weird.  

And the other side.  It's hard to see in this picture, but under strong light and high magnification, there is actually a very intricate pattern carved all across the face.  And it even looks like possibly a relief feature around the edge that is no longer really discernable.  There is some of that same edge feature showing on the other side where it's been shot, above too.  The geometric pattern looks much more precise and well done under the strong light and high magnification.  And that lighter area top left of center, is definitely carved or engraved or whatever it is too - I do believe there was a raised relief feature here.

 

Just what in the world is the story with this chunk of lead!  Doubt I'll ever know.  But of course I'm keenly interested in any opinions any of you have about it!

And the clad that was sprinkled above these.

 

- Dave

 

 

[Lost Scout]

Was the spike sitting on the lead like in the picture? I'm with you on the snake shot pattern but confused.... How deep?

 

[UT Dave]

The spike and the lead were about 18" apart in the ground.  Both about eight inches deep.  At about six inches deep, the park sod topsoil ends and a hard red clay and coarse gravel layer occurs.  It appears that clay/gravel layer is stopping the older stuff from getting too deep.  Both the spike and lead were about two inches into the clay/gravel layer, so about eight inches total depth.

Within an area about three square feet that includes these two, I also dug some tiny brass cogs.  From a clock or watch is my guess.  Also in that same three square feet but from shallower I dug about five pieces of clad and three or four pieces of aluminum trash.

I was getting so many good and bad signals all together I decided to "clean out" that little spot and see what I could see.  With the very wet weather and cold temps we've had lately, and this little spot the turf was spotty with a fair amount of bare dirt, I felt just fine going badger this morning.  A week from now nobody will be able to tell anything was dug.  I would not dig that spot like that in hot dry weather though - it is park turf.  Albeit in a mostly un-trafficked and out of the main activity area.

- Dave

[schoolofhardNox]

Definitely some weird finds. The rose head nails I find from the 1600's usually hold up extremely well vs the newer nails. Maybe your spike has been hit from many sides when pounding it in and just resembles a rose head. The lead thing, although it is not shaped quite like a palm guard, it is close enough that it may be one. They are used to sit in your palm while you work with needles in leather or for cutting things in your hand. That may explain all the cross hatch marks you have on it. Maybe there is a need for one of those, for some craftsman in your area? Just some guesses on them.

[UT Dave]

8 minutes ago, schoolofhardNox said:

 Maybe your spike has been hit from many sides when pounding it in and just resembles a rose head. 

Could very well be.  From the little reading I've done today on it, a real rose head would be just almost unrealistically early for the Salt Lake valley.  It would be pre Mormon.  Making it fur trapper or perhaps Spanish.  Both, to me, exceedingly unlikely.  But, not impossible?

 

8 minutes ago, schoolofhardNox said:

 The lead thing, although it is not shaped quite like a palm guard, it is close enough that it may be one. They are used to sit in your palm while you work with needles in leather or for cutting things in your hand. That may explain all the cross hatch marks you have on it. 

The cross hatch marks are definitely not random.  I should try and get a high magnification picture.  It's actually a quite intricate geometric pattern.  And looks much finer and more well done with high magnification.  I wish I had not gone so hard on it with the brass brush before taking a closer look.  Pretty sure I wiped out some of the detail.

- Dave

 

 

[rvpopeye]

I think I can see a face on that last piece of lead ?

[Lost Scout]

Just some thoughts. Don't know where you dug this but a lot of piers going into the lake would have had old handmade spikes. I was on a build that had reclaimed lumber from Salt Lake piers that had some beautiful color due the minerals in the water. All had spike holes. 

Could the lead be a seal for for a bottle or jar?

[Valens Legacy]

Nice looking spike after all those years.

The lead is actually a rare map of the Lost Dutchman's Mine that has areas mapped out along the way to it.

Great find in any case, it could be a weight for a scale as the early ones were not always stored in a box.

[UT Dave]

Check weight crossed my mind too.  If it weighed 8 oz instead of exactly 7 oz I'd be more inclined to think so.  But, still, could be?

This stuff is found pretty far from the lake.  Repurposed materials hauled from the lake is possible.  

- Dave

[NJ Art]

Looks exactly like a rose head. Maybe a big lead whomper. 😉 Check the edges for two opposite holes or existing wire, I have dug seals that big. Nice hunt Mr.