Sens Setting For Deep Coin Squeakers…

[Happa54]

13 hours ago, Chase Goldman said:

Hap - as an experienced FBS detectorist, you should just go with your detecting instincts.  Don't try to overthink or over tweak the Equinox - focus mainly on selecting your best case detecting mode for your site conditions and target objectives, getting the machine to run quiet (noise cancel, GB as necessary, adjust sensitivity accordingly AND perhaps dial back recovery speed for depth), focus on the audio and dig all repeatable targets. What it all boils down to for you, I think, is that the lack of depth related modulation with Equinox is throwing you off and you may also just be in a "slump" where your coil is not getting over any really deep silver.  Also, I will say that I think a good FBS machine (eTrac, CTX) is a good compliment to the Equinox, so I would hang to an FBS.  Under "ideal" conditions (low ferrous trash, low mineralization), the FBS machines will go deeper than Equinox and will give a more accurate ID at depth on high conductors.  The Equinox, though, is no slouch and is much more versatile and effective for many more conditions, situations, and targets than FBS.  HH

I think your statement that I highlighted in red text about sums it up. My Safari compliments my Nox quite well and that's why these two machines will stay with me. In time when my off & on tendonitis allows, I will be swinging the Safari as well...it is a heavy machine. 

 

[Jeff McClendon]

Hi All,

thanks Happa54 for starting this topic. It really is a good one! Chase, I have only turned up Iron Bias when I have had to deal with difficult hot rocks in the -5 to -3 range when I'm using Park 2 or Field 2 for gold prospecting. I try to leave it alone at 0 in the Gold modes. I haven't noticed a difference in depth so far but turning it up does seem to slightly attenuate the signal of targets near by making them a bit harder to hear. I haven't found anything in the manual (YET) that says Iron Bias adversely impacts depth but it is some kind of filter so........

 

Jeff

 

[GB_Amateur]

5 hours ago, Chase Goldman said:

...Iron bias seems to be there because ML figured out they could do it with Multi IQ (note that iron bias is not even present when operating in single frequency) but did not at least articulate the down side.  It seems to be a setting that has no benefit other than to prevent SOME falsing but with a lot of down side IMO.  I am not even sure having it set at low values is beneficial, so I agree with you it is IRON BIAS = 0 for me too.  It is definitely something to be aware of in Park 1 AND the Beach and Gold modes.

I never heard of iron bias before the Equinox, but I also never paid much attention to BBS and FBS detectors, either (and still don't).  In my defense ?, I don't remember those detectors being talked about much on this website before the Equinox was introduced, and this is the only website I follow.  Is IB strictly a Minelab thing?  Something is telling me it also is a feature on the XP Deus (you'll confirm or deny that, I'm sure), but if so, did XP just get the idea from earlier minelab VLF's?

[Happa54]

3 hours ago, Tiftaaft said:

Great thread!.  Thanks everyone for taking the time to detail your personal experience and results with the Equinox.  Hap, I bet you fidn't know the Hornets nest you were poking when you posted your first question... haha (and I mean that in a good way).  

My experience has been very similar to Bryan's here in the Pacific NW, though my finds have not been as impressive.  I have been running my 800 with the 15" (I agree with Bryan, it is a beast!!) In field 2, 50 tone, all tones (with a custom disc similar to Bryan's for really noisy areas), recovery 4 and IB-2 (though I have used IB-0 a fair amount).  I have a 30's-40's park near my work that I am currently meticulously grinding and I am pulling some nice finds at the 8-10" range.  I am starting to hear the nuance between a shallow target tone and a deeper target tone and probably more importantly understanding the "shape" of the target based on the tone.  I start getting excited when I hear that mellow round high tone and my depth meter is at 4 bars plus.  The WLH/SLQ combo was 9.5" at least, and was solid tone from one direction, but I had to work for it (note the "ring" on the back of the WLH where the SLQ was resting until I recovered it).  The hunt with the Ike was 2 days ago during a lunch break, 45 minute hunt.  All the coins pictured were 7"+, except the Ike that was about 6" (and singing solidly at 37-38).

I gravitated to field 2, but will probably cover the area again in park 1 or field 1 as reference to the discussion about the differences in the machine programming between 1 and 2 settings.  And I will also kick it down to IB0 to see what I have missed by making some iron co located targets.  

Thanks again everyone for the masters class of information above.  

Tim

Well Tim... I guess I'll have to poke around in another hornet's nest in another thread...LOL. 

I highlighted in red your response re "target shape based on tone". This is something I'm hearing for the first time. I more or less know the size of my targets through coil manipulation and pinpoint, but the shape of the target based on tone? I'm not there yet with the Nox. I need to know more about this technique. 

Thank you for mentioning it. 

[Tom Slick]

Iron Bias is basically the same thing as White's "Bottle Cap Reject". It's been on a number of White's detectors, V3i, VX3, DFX, etc. An adjustment to help make sure bottle caps (iron) registered as such and not a coin. Of course now, many bottle caps are actually an iron /alloy making it more difficult to disc out without missing good targets also. DD coils don't help in that regard. In the past, most detectors used concentric coils which are better at discrimination but now most manufactures use DD coils as standard equipment. Each have their advantages. 

[Steve Herschbach]

4 hours ago, GB_Amateur said:

I never heard of iron bias before the Equinox, but I also never paid much attention to BBS and FBS detectors, either (and still don't).  In my defense ?, I don't remember those detectors being talked about much on this website before the Equinox was introduced, and this is the only website I follow.  Is IB strictly a Minelab thing?  Something is telling me it also is a feature on the XP Deus (you'll confirm or deny that, I'm sure), but if so, did XP just get the idea from earlier minelab VLF's?

What Tom just said above. From the White's DFX User Guide:

White’s DFX Bottlecap Reject

Adjusts how strongly the instrument rejects or breaks up on iron. Most starting programs use the minimum setting. As larger numbers are selected, more bias rejection against iron occurs.

The advantage of higher BOTTLECAP REJECT settings is that in high trash areas more decisive iron rejection occurs. Trash becomes easier to identify by the broken sounds they produce.

The disadvantage of a high Bottlecap Rejection setting is if an iron target is close to a good metal, the high degree of bias against iron may cause the detector to cancel both responses. Another disadvantage is that all targets, iron and non-iron, tend to start sounding more broken at high levels of BOTTLECAP REJECT. The operator needs to fine tune BOTTLECAP REJECT according to their preferences and the conditions being searched.

Some ground conditions make it difficult for the instrument to recognize iron. BOTTLECAP REJECT allows compensation for these areas.

[Tiftaaft]

4 hours ago, Happa54 said:

 

I highlighted in red your response re "target shape based on tone". This is something I'm hearing for the first time. I more or less know the size of my targets through coil manipulation and pinpoint, but the shape of the target based on tone? I'm not there yet with the Nox. I need to know more about this technique. 

I am still getting comfortable with it myself... but it is all about coil hours on the ground for me.  The more I hunt the better I understand the Equinox "vocabulary".  Tim.

[Chase Goldman]

6 hours ago, GB_Amateur said:

Something is telling me it also is a feature on the XP Deus (you'll confirm or deny that, I'm sure), but if so, did XP just get the idea from earlier minelab VLF's?

It is similar to the Deus silencer feature and I have also turned that off on my Deus based on Tn Sharpshooter videos demonstrating how silencer can cause masking and one way signals of non ferrous targets near ferrous objects.

[Happa54]

Hey Everyone…

I had to dig this one up and bring it up for discussion…again.

I have hundreds more hours on the Nox since I started this post over a year ago.

Out this evening with my Etrac and Explorer buddies who I refer to as the “Silver Slayers”.

I was not swinging my Nox due to a bad back but I tagged along to get out for fresh air and to see if I could find things on the surface at the dirt field.

For some reason, the subject of high vs low sensitivity came up. They both told me that they run their sens slightly above the halfway point on the meter. Their machines max out at 30 vs 25 on my Nox. They have their sens settings at 18. Their recovery speeds are set on default.

This took me by surprise that they don’t run their machines hot, but yet they dig to depths of 9” and 11”. I asked them to explain. Their answer…..”At high sens the shallow targets drown out the deep coins therefore you don’t hear them…at the lower sens settings, the shallow targets allow the deeper targets to be heard.”

Now I wonder….is there a difference in the technology between multi IQ and FBS that makes this happen?  I have adjusted my sens on numerous occasions while waggling over targets. If I lower my sens, I lose the target. If I run the sens up near max, I can hear the deep targets.

I do very well with my Nox but I cannot keep up with these guys. Their respective silver, wheat and nik counts are 2 to 1 over mine…every time.

I’d like to hear a little more feedback on this subject, if you don’t mind.