Chase Goldman

The capability boost by incorporating those few things from the FBS2 detectors that are desirable would only be worth a couple hundred dollars in value to me. More importantly, and probably something that would actually drive cost up (since the above is only programming and signal processing - no impact to power requirements) is improving the build quality and ergonomics by going to full up CF shafts and stems, improving weight and balance, improving the grip and adjustability of the control pod, and finally deciding on making a truly waterproof or simply dunk proof/weatherproof machine rather than trying to split the difference like they did with Equinox(it appears to be mostly dunk proof and submersible if you are lucky and got one that does not have manufacturing/fit-up flaws). I could live with dunk proof (rather than submersible) personally which would be cheaper to design and build. Also not interested in built-in GPS and other half-measure bells and whistles. That would probably put it at the $1200 to 1500 price point, I would say.

I was always aware of ML differentiating gold mode "true" threshold vs. the other modes' reference threshold in the manual from the get go. Notice that Steve pulled those screen grabs from the manual pdf in early 2018. The thing is, I wonder if they have subtly enhanced gold mode threshold's effect on weak signals with subsequent updates (perhaps 3.0 this summer?) and that is why it is more noticeable to you now.

Unless I am missing something, sounds like you simply rediscovered this (from earlier in this thread when it was started in 2018) that Steve extracted direct from the manual: Glad you verified, with certainty, what ML was saying regarding threshold enhancing weak target signals. I always wondered about it, but use gold mode primarily as a psuedo all metal relic mode rather than for small gold searching so have not really explored the usefulness of gold mode's true threshold feature.

For future reference, the bone conduction HPs linked above are not APTX LL but they do pair with the Equinox and advertise low delay and F350 is doing tests to determine how much delay they actually do have. See this thread.

Doesn't matter. Any coin-sized target that makes your detector beep and that you can see as a visual reference vs. your coil position when the tone is heard.

He said in his OP, for audio awareness of his surroundings especially of nearby hunters. Bone conduction phones don't plug your ear canals so you can still hear what is around like using a loudspeaker but without disturbing others around you because only you can hear them.

I noticed that the claim of APTX LL compatibility was from a random user answering a question from a prospective buyer, not from Avantree themselves. They probably incorporate some other proprietary low delay (i.e., not Aptx LL) protocol when paired with Avantree transmitters. The Equinox is an Aptx LL transmitter, so if they truly incorporate APTX LL you would have received the plus symbol. Plugging in the Trond transmitter will not help. BT 5.0 is neither here nor there. It has nothing to do with whether the headphones incorporate APTX LL. There are BT 4.0 headphones that incorporate APTX LL. Also, just to make things more confusing, there are different flavors of APTX (e g. APTX-HD) that are not low latency. APTX-LL has a delay of about 30 to 40 ms which few users notice. Vanilla APTX is 60 to 80. Other Non-APTX LL BT codecs can have delays up to 250 ms or more which is very noticeable. The way you can tell if delay is excessive is to put a coin on top of the ground. Now swing over the coin with your Nox (use Park 1 at default settings). If the BT audio delay is excessive, it will appear that you are getting one-way beeps on either side of the coin depending on sweep direction. The effect is more pronounced the faster you swing the coil. This is really annoying if you use the wiggle-off method to pinpoint an actual buried target because it appears you might have two one-way signals under the coil. It also wreaks havoc with your ability to use coil control wiggle to lock onto a faint target that may be adjacent to ferrous junk. Yes you can get away with higher bluetooth delays but it can throw off pinpointing or experienced users who rely heavily on coil control to ferret out iffy targets. Unfortunate, because was really looking for a good set of APTX LL bone conduction phones. The only ones I am aware of were a set by Panasonic but have since gone out of production. They were expensive and also got poor user reviews on sound quality and ergonomics vs. Aftershokx who appear to be the industry leader in bone conduction phones. HTH

Avantree does make Bluetooth APTX LL headphones, problem is, I do not see where Avantree explicitly states BT APTX LL in the specs for this particular model. Since you do have them paired up on your Equinox, can you verify that you are getting the bluetooth symbol with the plus ("+") sign on your Equinox display which confirms they are BT APTX LL compatible. I might be interested in these phones should that prove to be the case. Thanks!

IMO NOX has the best balance between TID resolution, precision, and stability (which all compete against one another) that I have used (including my F75, Whites MXT, and Deus <0 to 99'er TID detectors, all of which I still own). That coupled with great audio that tells you more about a target than any 2 digit number - I can more reliably "call the target" with it before it is extracted than any detector I have owned. However, I would love to see a Multi IQ detector with the discrimination capability and precise CO-FE TID schemes of the eTrac and CTX FBS2 detectors.

No, US nickels are typically a 13 on the Nox, but depending on the level of corrosion and composition (i.e., war nickels with silver content) even a nickel TID can vary on the Nox. Unless you are looking for a specific surface target (e.g., the twin of a recently lost earring or a ring with similar characteristics to a recent loss from which you can derive the exact TID) notching out all but a single TID is a really great way to leave a lot of keeper gold targets in the ground.

Once I got may hands on an ORX nearly two years ago, I realized that it was flawed but a much better setup than a Deus lite because of the information on the screen. At that time I had three must have wish list items that would make it a completely suitable replacement for the Deus - 1) A pitch tones mode, 2) A full tones mode, and 3) GB Tracking. Having the ability to navigate programs with +/- buttons like on the Deus, having a few more custom program slots and being able to independently adjust the silencer were additional desirable but lower priority wishlist items. After several outings with ORX, I like the ground grab feature implementation (much better than the Deus implementation) which effectively eliminates the need for GB tracking. If Orx simply had the option to go to full or pitch tones in the coins modes, it would be a Deus killer. Of course, XP will probably never implement those upgrades...because it would make Orx a Deus killer. Bottom line, i agree with Jeff, the lack of an ability to reall differentiate keeper gold targets from aluminum because of the lack of full tone audio nuances makes the Orx only a serviceable jewelry hunter. It can get the job done, but in a really trashy aluminum filled park, the task is made a lot more difficult because of the lack of full tones.

Addressing GB's original question - I am not surprised, as long as there some conductive path. You have to completely break the connection with a true air gap to significantly change the eddy current path.

I've switched to an alternate power source for the GPX that allows for AC or DC charge source (Doc's screamer). Even with the ML batteries, I always brought my 12 VDC cigarette lighter adapter charge cable with me just in case. But with variable voltage and wattage charging available using USB-C Power Delivery, I agree that a modern charging scheme that utilizes the ubiquitous USB-C PD charge banks on the go would make sense for a 2021 detector design.

Nice saves, Andy.

Dunno if you are in the US, but Metaldetecor.com has a smoking deal on an Omega 8500 with DD coil, small concentric and a Tek pinpointer, all for less than $400, FWIW. Couldn't resist since I have the G2+ as well and several accessory coils.

It does well on deep anything metal, you just won't know what it is until you dig it.

That ^

And on school grounds...

You're right - its just that there are no 18th century First Republic reales, and I am still search for my first 18th century coin. That 1/2 reale is the earliest coin from which I have been able to extract a date. I would say of the approximate 150 hours of swing time I got in over the past 12 months, 90% was at what could be considered relic sites. But not all the relic sites I have access to are CW encampment/battle sites or at least not documented assume. Probably 50% is at sites that are historically known battlefield, encampment sites, all the relic sites are on private permissions.

As an avid relic hunter first and foremost, the stuff in those pics are all modern iron and farm junk, cheeto nails, shotgun shells, modern casings and bullets that are not really deirable relics (unless you are a trained archeologist looking for context from the analysis - believe me as a detectorist volunteer at historic sites, I have bagged and tagged my share of nails and other obscure ferrous artifacts and know the difference). The reason they are in those containers is because I do comb through them to make sure the are indeed trash and not treasure. I have recovered a number of ferrous keeper relics and they don't end up in the junk piles, believe me.

Agree totally with this. It does do one thing really well (reliably IDs at depth - but mostly under ideal site conditions) and the seated save backs that up. I don't agree with calling it a boat anchor for this reason. But whether it is $1200 or $2500, that is a lot to pay for that singular capability. The ergonomic downsides of Nox have been capably addressed by 3rd party replacement shaft systems. And even with that additional expense, you are still ahead in the cost column (aftermarket mods can only partially address the CTX issues due to its integrated power module design). I can go low and slow with the Nox as well and similarly lock onto deep keepers with the Nox, though probably not with the same ID depth as the CTX so that is a good point. So there is always room for improvement. Nox is definitely not a perfect machine, either, obviously. Speaking for myself, I am not bashing the the CTX so much as making a commentary on the fact that it has seen its best days and a lower price point does not entice me to turn back the clock on technological capability and versatility which was the question (not whether the CTX is a good or bad machine but whether it is a good value at half the price). It is really not a slam but a reality check. In Multi IQ and future enhancements of that signal processing technology, ML has the ability to marry the best of both worlds and provide a CTX follow-on that maintains all the plusses of that design, while simultaneously addressing it's flaws and hopefully giving us great value in the process.

Nope. It basically does one thing really well (slays silver with its super precise TID at depth), other than that, heavy, slow, not that great in iron and with mid conductors, and unnecessarily complicated UI. Plus, the price drop would probably signal the imminent release of the Multi IQ variant which brings speed, versatility, and perhaps a lighter overall package.

I apologize for hiding it there. The bloody thumb part made me feel guilty enough to confess. Seriously though , perhaps a flash flood in the wash jammed it up in there and buried it. Who knows. In relic hunting, if you are not digging this you aren't really trying. And that's with a GPX wit iron reject...

They way you leave no stone unturned on land or in the water, it will happen...

Even though 2020 has been awful in a number of ways (a number of milestones in my immediate family were either cancelled or subdued including high school and college graduations and milestone birthdays and anniversaries, close friends and family were affected by the virus, and the list goes on) . But the nature of detecting as a naturally socially distant activity was one bright spot and an effective outlet for all the frustration encountered this year. Below are pics of my finds and site memories over the past 12 months (cheated a little as a few of these go back into the end of 2019). They were pretty much recovered using 3 main detectors - the Deus/Orx (using a number of different coils), the Equinox 800, and Minelab GPX 4800. A couple buttons were also recovered using the Tarsacci which has found a semi-permanent place in the first team detector lineup as well as the Nokta Simplex+ and Tek G2+ as the next tier in specialized situations. All of the below were recovered on private permission property or public beaches in the DMV (DC, VA, MD) region and PA. Enjoy the pics and looking forward to a better, safer, and fun 2021, especially with detector and digger in hand. I'll end it with my bucket lister of all time (so far...) - 1849 $1 Gold and a sequence of stills from the GoPro capturing the first moments of detecting magic. Hope everyone gets to experience similar moments in 2021 and beyond. Detecting is a magic mix of technology, relaxation, excitement, history, discovery, adventure, and most of all great friendship, fellowship and lifetime memories. Happy New Year Everyone! My first relic hunt in 98F heat (usually it is a spring/fall deal after harvest, before planting) but COVID delayed this hunt until the end of June. Still managed some keepers between downing about 10 pints of water including an improvised fishing weight from a carved lead CW minie ball bullet. My first Civil War Token below - an Army/Navy token with an image of the US Capitol Building US Cavalry bridle bit boss...a deep find made even more memorable and unexpected because I had to put the GPX DD coil in cancel mode due to severe electrical interference... My first 1/2 reale above, but Mexican First Republic not Spanish... Some nice old silver quarters below. That seated quarter was literally the first find of the day - it was a good omen As my last keeper of the day was my first dug Confederate Button...An Confederate infantry "Block I" Camp life at CW sites turns up a huge variety of finds...intricate flower button above, a partial harmonica reed, and a pristine campfire annealed square nail devoid of any corrosion. A .69 Caliber minie ball dug below - this thing will do some serious damage just getting thrown at someone, imagine it still travelling 360 feet per second AFTER travelling 1500 yards from the muzzle. Don't forget to take in the sights at the sites... A relaxing day at the beach finding...a 2 cent piece? An exciting day at the farm finding...my first flat round gold!