Chase Goldman

It really wasn't all that complicated - ML added a new single frequency setting - 4 khz and some unspecified "stability improvements". Certainly a lot less complicated than figuring out what F2 iron bias was all about. No one said it wasn't an Equinox update. The discussion centered around videos posted in this thread and first hand experiences that showed the new 4 khz setting behaved pretty differently (more stable and clear sounding) than 5 khz and folks were speculating why that would be the case. Testing a future platform signal processing algorithm, perhaps? That's what we do on this forum. If you read the posts in context, that can be helpful information but depends on how you use the machine, especially in regards to single frequency operation. The update may be less appealing from a general user sense than previous updates because it is focused on single frequency operation, and apparently may only apply to 4 khz. If SF 4 khz is something you would seldom use for example, as a wet salt sand beach hunter who stays mostly in the MF only Beach modes, then yes your benefit may be small or nill. A deep silver hunter may find he has a completely new capability. Over the last two updates (2.0 and 3.0) ML appears to be in a mode where new features are being added (yay!) and old features are either left alone or actually enhanced. Nothing existing seems to be worse off (that could be more hotly debated for update 1.75). Bottom line: ML has removed much of the risk of updating by accumulating new features, leaving old ones intact, and as always, giving you the ultimate control in being able to roll back if you desire. Only the individual Equinox user can make those decisions for themselves. PS: Mtichel - I see now that you have to jump through extra hoops to load the update because you are using a Chromebook as your daily driver, so I can better understand why you would want to know if it is worth the trip. Ted below pointed you towards ColonelDan's impression. As a fellow beach hunter, he might be your most relevant source on whether the update is worthwhile for you, he anecdotally noticed what he felt was improved stability across the board (including MF beach modes) as he was able to run sens a little higher than normal. Might be worth the trip even if it is just a placebo. Looks like they didn't break anything. Good luck.

I wasn't taking it personal. Don't know if "everyone" else was, though. Yep. That's exactly what I was thinking too as I stated in my previous post. Glad I am not the only one. 4 khz just seems to be behaving differently than the other single frequencies based especially on Iffy Signals' video. I am going to try to give it a go in my test garden tonight.

Really? What is the basis for that statement? I could see that for big silver but it seems counter-intuitive for smaller silver, especially edge on. Would like to know more about your experiences on this. Thanks. I think I mentioned this previously, this could be implemented without adding yet another frequency selection by enabling a capability to do frequency shifting around each individual center frequency. Perhaps a future upgrade.

I don't think the questions you and the rest of us were asking means that Minelab can't win when it comes to updates. Weren't we all just scratching our heads on why THIS PARTICULAR UPDATE bubbled to the top of Minelab's Equinox change list and the even more obscure reference to the reason for adding it in the change log? That just seems like healthy discourse and precisely what this forum is all about. Believe me, this is not about Minelab not being able to win or catch a break. Minelab is winning big time. Maybe there is just some jealousy on this board because the Asain Horde Hunters appear to have Minelab's ear at the moment. But seriously, if anything, the questions are simply a product of ML's stilted way of communicating detector technology to their customers, often times generating more questions than answers in the process. Plus it is always a joy to poke fun at ML's marketing material. Anyway, I don't think ML cares whether people are asking why, they would only care (perhaps) if people start complaining about the update, and so far, I am not seeing that. It has merely taken a few videos to emerge to see that 4 khz indeed seems to be a different beast than 5 khz with respect to both stability and signal clarity. Who would have thought that? That does add another tool in the toolkit that hadn't seemed to be obviously missing before. A pleasant surprise, frankly. Now that we can see it in action. I have a conspiracy theory, frankly. I suspect that ML is rolling out the 4 khz change as a stealth way to get some real world field testing on new signal processing or noise canceling algorithms, perhaps for incorporation into a future machine. The only thing that is strange about it is that they are not implementing it as a Multi IQ Mode change. Perhaps so they can limit the other Multi IQ processing variables such as iron bias. There definitely appears to be a difference in how the signal is processed when 4 khz is selected. The other good news is that the folks with 600's can now say they have 4 single frequency options! Good thing ML did not introduce 25 khz as the new frequency, otherwise the 600 folks would be out of luck, I suppose. With regards to Equinox updates in general, I think people have little to complain about. The F2 iron bias change last year was brilliant in both execution and results. The way ML distributes the update software package is great too, including the option to roll back to any previous change and you also can't complain about the approximate annual frequency of the updates. Bravo. No, i wouldn't conflate "everyone" asking why with "everyone" complaining about the update, and that is a good thing IMO.

Those are some "elementary" finds.

No, but I've had a few that made things worse! Fortunately, ML takes the risk out of the equation by allowing you to easily roll back to a previous stable version.

I just know the guys he came with put a pull tab or two underneath his coil cover. That's what I would have done... Then there would be the planted silver ploy - hey slacker, how come you haven't found any silver yet...we each got 3 a piece so far... Then he would be subject to the dreaded "carpet of rotted zincolns". All good fun when initiating a new member into our detecting club... We had to put a stop to it when 80-year-old Mrs. Simpson beat our club president to a pulp with a pinpointer once she got wind of the shenanigans.

Weird. Wonder just what are these deep, large targets in Asia that are invisible at 5 khz but not at 4 khz. Glad we are still getting updates 2.5 years into the original release, scratching my head this is really at the top of the list - it was not even on my personal Equinox enhancement radar screen. Having a frequency shift option (+/- 1 khz across the board) would have made more sense if EMI was the real driver to 4 khz. And then again the all encompassing "stability enhancements" - that is clear as mud but hopefully useful. Really would like to have seen a host of other enhancements such as improved pinpointing "stability" [maybe part of the stability enhancements perhaps - we'll see], perhaps a VCO like pitch tone on the non-gold modes, back-and-forth mode navigation (instead of the one-way merry-go-round), future proofing the bluetooth interface since 3rd-party APTX-LL hardware seems to be doing the opposite of "catching on" in the marketplace, and a true "raw" unprocessed all-metal mode would be cool. The other stuff (more sophisticated target ID and discrimination and other FBS goodies) I can wait for the Equinox/CTX "1040" iteration. Oh, and I hope they fixed that dreaded nickel on top of a dime issue. That should have been at the top of their list... BTW - how about some smaller form factor elliptical coils, Minelab, if you really want to help out your Equinox users...tired of being jealous of the kid running around here with the Vanquis 540 and that cool 8 inch elliptical. Finally, cool down vest dude in the promo pic, quit admiring yourself in the truck windshield and start swinging that Equinox, ya prima donna slacker! Since you don't have a digger, looks like you are going to have to get those french manicured nails dirty.

Actually, I would take a light weight, powerful PI with iron rejection/iron id...that is not targeted solely to beach jewelry detection. (Hint...hint TO FT/ML/Garrett/Nokta) IOW - I'm not asking it to do it all.

Duncan appears to have left the building. This was his last post and last visit to the forum. Explains a lot, I think. Hope he comes back because I think we can help but he seems to have a problem in receiving, hearing, and acting on advice. Duncan, please prove me wrong so we can help...

TreasureHunter5 - I also noticed what Joe D. noticed about the cool hobbies in your profile after I posted. A lot of the enjoyment of metal detecting such as getting outdoors and enjoying fresh air and cool new places is common to some of your other pursuits. Bottom line, hobbies should not feel like work and should not be boring. The are an adult way of escaping the rigors of day-to-day living and you should look forward to spending whatever precious spare time you have doing them. If it's not enjoyable or tedious, then you have your answer. And you are absolutely right that you should also take a break to keep things fresh. Work and family naturally keep my hobby fresh because it limits my play time enough that I really look forward to the opportunity to get out and detect and plan periodic week long get togethers with detecting buddies to do nothing but detect, eat, and sleep. Good luck and hope you stick with it.

If your singular focus is just on the finds and not on the total picture - the hobby will seem tedious and pointless. If you cannot appreciate the intangibles such as getting outdoors and away from the chaos, the thrill of the hunt, the occasional spectacular finds, the friendship that comes from meeting others engaged in similar pursuits, researching and gaining access to productive/historic sites, debates on equipment, busting your buddy's chops on getting skunked, celebrating with your buddy when they find that gold coin that you too can hold in your hand, learning about things you never knew existed, seeing some cool wildlife, grabbing as much silver as you can at a seeded contest hunt, finding a long lost carved Civil War bullet fishing weight, and reuniting priceless items back with their owners then yeah, it will seem like a tedious way to collect trash at a place where you couldn't care less using an expensive piece of gear that is over-designed for the task at hand. It's all a matter of perspective. Most people who simply see visions of easy treasure popping out of the ground before experiencing the realities of the hobby lose interest fairly quickly. Looks like you are potentially in that camp. Detecting is what you choose to make of it and it is not everyone's passion. You have to discover that for yourself and decide your path. Everything you have said is absolutely true but matters little to the detectorist who gets enjoyment from everything else the hobby has offer. A coin or relic or nugget found is 100 times sweeter than buying that same item off ebay.

I knew you would be thrilled to finally know...

Actually, Tom, what Glenn posted is new news because when it was first reported last month, Fenn refused to say where the treasure was found. He confirmed yesterday, for the first time, that the treasure was found in Wyoming. This new fact, perhaps interesting to some and not to others, means Glenn's post shouldn't simply be dismissed as old news.

Um, yeah, I think they have some new toys on the way. I guess you missed the news while putting together your camper...

Many thanks, PimentoUK excellent summary and links - I will dive in. So in a nutshell you are saying the delay in the CONSECUTIVE transmission of the FBS frequencies enables a time domain (signal decay) assessment of the low frequency component (pseudo pulse induction principle) of the multi frequency waveform to infer the FE component. Equinox has no intervening delay as all two or three combined waveforms are transmitted simultaneously. Interesting. I wonder if this built in transmit and processing delay (combined with the older processor) is what gives the CTX poorer recovery speed performance. I wonder if this can be overcome simply by applying additional processing horsepower. Hopefully, ML engineers have been spending the last 3 years attempting to solve that problem to give the best of both FBS and Multi IQ worlds. I would gladly pay the asking price for that product. That would definitely be a worthwhile incremental improvement in Multi Frequency technology and VLF IB detectors. Good stuff!

That is an amazingly definitive statement that you have casually thrown out there as fact that I am having trouble reconciling based on what little we do know about Multi IQ because of ML's lack of clear technical information on the subject and despite folks like you who have experimented with attempting to ascertain the Multi IQ waveform frequency components from lab equipment measurements. Please cite the underlying references and technical explanations (the physics) that support this statement. To my knowledge, ML has never stated this to be the case. There has to be some inferred FE reference just to be able to 1) ID and discriminate out ferrous targets and 2) iron bias ferrous filtering/enhancement relies on multi IQ mode processing (not available in single frequency mode). Did you guys discuss and deep dive this on Geotech's forum and come to this conclusion as you picked apart the Nox operating waveform frequency components, is there a ML reference, or is it, hopefully informed, but nevertheless speculation on your part? Here is a link to Steve's Nox 800 lowdown page that includes excerpts from the multi part Treasure Talk articles attempting to tightrope between blurry technical explanations of Multi IQ, very high level comparisons to FBS, while attempting to prevent revealing too much about the secret sauce to the competition. Unfortunately, ML's atrocious reorganization of their site in the intervening time since those articles were posted is making it near impossible to find and link to the original ML Multi IQ articles using the limited interface of my phone's browser. All I can find is simplistic animated Multi IQ video (great for marketing) and that stupid diagram that conflates MULTI IQ and Single Frequency (V Flex) (great for totally confusing people). Note to Minelab - you don't have to dumb the whole site down - you will still be able to successfully market your detectors to those who do and don't care about the details of the underlying technology. If you re going to call the section of your site "Knowledge Base" please preserve the knowledge. Duh.

It is always good to have a backup, complimentary detector to cover the gaps. I find the Equinox and Orx/Deus to be a killer combo.

...and faster. Relatively slow recovery speed for such an otherwise advanced detector. MultiIQ should help in this regard and with multiple Multi IQ frequency profiles (FBS2 only really has one profile with the modes being differentiated solely by by different user setting presets) should boost the CTX's fair to middling mid-conductor performance. Unless there is something inherently limiting regarding Multi IQ's ability to support Fe-Co target ID, target trace, and sophisticated 2-D discrimination profiles, it just seems like a no-brainer logical next step iteration from Equinox to the 4040 or whatever ML plans to call it.

It is under warranty. There is zero risk. If it leaks you get a new one, if doesn't you have likely got a a reliable water machine. I just don't get the hesitancy of folks finding out one way or the other while the warranty is in effect, especially if they have a suitable backup detector to swing if the Nox has to be sent back for replacement. But whatever...take the guaranteed loss on resale if that is what you want to do. Good deal for Jeff. SMH.

Duncan is this your channel? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1H8edTGhya8zbgfJz0wRXg If so, the videos don't tell us much at all. You have provided no settings information (e.g., mode or sensitivity setting) or target information - what is the coin you are using as a test target? Did you try different types of coins? You seem to have little knowledge regarding how detectors work. For example, a gold chain is a very difficult target for any detector. Can you give us a little background regarding your level of detecting experience? If these are your videos, it appears you could possibly have a detector problem or simply screwed up settings. The short vid showing a noisey, unstable detector appears to be taken indoors. A sensitive piece of equipment such as a metal detector is susceptible to the myriad of sources of electrical interference including florescent lamps, wi fi, microwaves, electrical voltage transformers, cell phones, wireless landline phones, you name it. Especially if you have sensitivity cranked to the max which appears to be the case. Really need additional info to provide you with further help.

I am here for your amusement, Simon.

Sandi, is that you? Oh, nevermind. Seriously, just post a link already so we can see what's going on with your machine. If you can somehow manage to upload a video to whatever site is hosting your video, it really should be a no brainer to post a link to it or enough info to enable a semi internet literate person to do a google search. Also, a little self awareness and less finger pointing would go a long way here. You are asking for help, having obvious issues effectively communicating with others and performing the simplest of tasks (contacting customer support, linking a video), have apparently alienated the manufacturer and your dealer, and are doing a fine job almost cutting off another lifeline by showing up and throwing accusations of brand bias around just because someone is pointing out relevant facts that are hindering your ability to get assistance from one of the most helpful forum sites around. So put down the shovel, stop digging yourself into a deeper hole, and demonstrate that you are at least listening to what people are advising you to do here - post a link to your video or find a way to articulate some real facts about what ails your detector, or make contact with the repair center. Don't care which of those you do but continuing to complain about your plight or lashing out at others without throwing us a bone is not helpful. Thanks.

Yes, gold mode set to 25 khz or above is going to be a most sensitive mode for mid conductive targets and is a well known "secret" weapon to experienced Deus/Orx relic hunters. Pitch mode used in conjunction with Deus fast can give similar results while being able to take advantage of true ferrous discrimination and iron volume. If Orx incorporated pitch and full tones options for the coin modes (even while limiting multi-tone options to the current 3-tone setup), I honestly would would see little need for me to even need any of the other Deus bells and whistles. The only drawback with either of these setups being the lack of tone-based ID and reliance on visual TID.