Chase Goldman

Great illustration, Dan. Coil coverage, not detector performance or site conditions, is what I believe keeps a majority of the targets buried in the sand or dirt. Coil coverage falls in the detectorist skill category. Anyone can hear beeps or read numbers, tweaking a machine can only help so much, but if you can't read the beach or site clues (eroded cuts, low spots, areas of likely commerce, where do folks take off their flip-flops and drop stuff?, where is the towel line and low tide line?, where would someone build a house (high ground)?, where would they gather for social activities, water, or meals?), keep your coil low and level when swinging, and adequately cover the beach with a logical coverage scheme, then it really does come down to chance. Folks are usually not patient enough to cover every inch of ground in a disciplined manner (me included) and often over-estimate the ground they have actually covered with their coils. Analogous to the golf saying "Never up, never in" , you can't detect or recover the target you don't get your coil over. That is why I just shake my head when folks say they keep the 6" coil on "all the time" or use it in fields and beaches. Sure you can do that, and it makes sense if all you detect is cellar holes, bed o' nails sites, or other constrained situations. But if you want to ensure overlapping swing coverage that means you are tiptoeing along at most at 1/2 the speed you would use to search with the 11" coil and with about 1ft less sweep width. That translate to a lot less ground that can be covered in a given period of time. Time = targets and the more time you waste having to cover ground or interrogating targets means (rather than just digging those iffy signals) is that much less time for recovering targets or leaving more to chance if you decide to forego coil coverage for speed.

https://www.treasureproducts.com/vibraphone.html Unfortunately it is a discontinued product.

Thanks. You seem to really get where I am coming from on this. Yes, either that or heads up display glasses that can "paint" the site and tell you where you have already swept the coil (to ID bare spots where you actually did not sweep the coil), the mineralization profile, or where you have gotten target hits as well has being able to display real time target information. Imagine looking down while you are sweeping the coil and seeing a virtual "X" where the target is. The detection technology is not going to change much but how the detector target information is conveyed to the operator can evolve. Imagine wireless wearable displays where you can take the control module OFF the stick, hide the battery, and make it literally just a better balanced coil on a stick with a handle and nothing is hanging on your chest or belt (but your pouch, PP, and digger). You are just wearing sophisticated sunglasses. I agree plus they tend to be better plugged into and "in tune" with the user base than anyone else including ML and XP. More to the point, I get the impression that NM is putting out product that detectorists are clamoring for, rather that what THEY want you use. In other words, NM is providing product that detectorists want to PULL from them, while others tend to PUSH their product to the users. ML Equinox seemed like a PULL product but Vanquish seems more like a PUSH.

Dew, The 1.75 update fixed a bug related to the the user profile button an inadvertent resets of settings. It also appeared to improve Equinox response to high conductive coins on edge. The drawback, real or imagined, was that this hotter response on small profile high conductive targets also increased the propensity of falsing when using the small coil with sensitivity cranked. As a result, I kept my primary machine updated to the latest software but kept my backup 800 on the original software and would use that machine in situations that called for the small coil. Since the introduction of version 2.0, I think the addition of the F2 iron bias setting, I think that any falsing associated with the small coil can likely be overcome with the proper setting of the F2 iron bias setting without as much risk to non-ferrous masking. In other words, the mid-level settings of F2 are very effective at reducing falsing of mixed ferrous without having to overdrive the bias curve to the extent that you start masking non-ferrous targets in the proximity of ferrous, though you can certainly do so by cranking F2 to 6 or higher. As a result, I no longer see any reason to keep version 1.5 around on ANY machine so I have upgraded both my 800's now to version 2.0. Hope that makes sense.

C'mon Steve, tell us how you really feel.

I missed that too. Now I’m intrigued. Would love to try that design out.

BTW Garik, my thumbs up to your post was because you were narrowing down your focus to the 800, I missed that you snuck the 24K in there. Think about the 24K all you want, but if you like the 800 AND have the GPX waiting in the wings, I agree with Rob A. You have all the hardware you need for the moment and the 24K is not going to bring anything to the table but another detector to learn. As I have been saying all along, focus your efforts on learning one of the three detectors you have as best as you can and hold off on the hardware for now. Once you start making some finds you will forget about the bright shiny detector distractions and will instead focus in on recovering the gold.

They are most responsive to calls.

Rick - I hear what you are saying re: the ergonomics and the twist physics theory for straight shafts behind the criticism. I think the conclusion, however, is not as cut and dried as making a blanket statement that it has lousy ergonomics because I too have no trouble swinging it all day yet one of my hunting buddies just can't stand it. I think it is more of a 50 - 50 proposition. I just happen to be able to adjust the arm cup to control pod to the optimal distance such that my wrist naturally and unconsciously compensates for the twist and does not result in fatigue on both the stock shaft and my favorite aftermarket CF shaft (shout out to Steve G). Coil control and making a smooth level swing through the arc is something to which I pay a lot of attention. I am short and perhaps my stature has something to do with it, though I know some short folks who have issues with it too. So who knows why it works for some and not for others. All I know is that if it was a 100% flawed design, it seems there would be a lot more wailing about it and the manufacturers would quit coming out with new detectors that use basically that shaft design time and again. Though I will note that that ML made a significant turn towards a Deus like stem and shaft design for Vanquish, and I have seen pics of a few home brew Equinox S Shaft systems out in the wild, too.

Ironically, it connected to your cell phone.

I wonder if that form factor somehow facilitates IP68 environmental qualification as all three of those detectors are waterproof to at least 3 meters. In fact, I was surprised to see ML move away from that form factor for Vanquish. Which is NOT waterproof, btw. I would really like to see Nokta repackage the features of the Anfibio into the Simplex form factor and include the ergonomic streamlined UI (even if the price leaned more heavily towards Anfibio than Simplex). But I would settle for the “simple” addition of an additional higher operating frequency selection (e.g., 24 kHz) to a Simplex ++ deluxe model. Regardless, the streamlined simplicity, economy, and mid-to-high level performance capability of Simplex+ is more intriguing to me than Vanquish, and I might just spring for the Simplex to see what it can do out of the box. There is something strangely liberating about knowing that you can’t tweak settings and just gotta make do with what you have in your hands and trust that the designers have it optimally tweaked for 95% of situations, right out of the box. Reminds me of my Tek Delta days, a detector I still keep around for sentimental reasons and because it has an awesome concentric 8” coin grabber coil. And I like my Equinox form factor so what’s not to like about Simplex.

It should provided it is constantly submerged or being doused by wave action (though the silicon can act as a thermal insulator of sorts and if the heat is being generated in the housing electronics, the water can’t remove that heat as effectively with the silicon barrier, but yeah, probably a non issue in the water). Also, many water hunters I know often hunt at the tide line or in the wet sand during their detecting session and in direct sunlight, without water cooling off the now exposed but silicon sealed housing, things can heat up really fast.

And if your Nox has a manufacturig defect that violates watertight integrity of the housing, that cover and insert is likely not going be 100% effective. The Nox is designed to be watertight down to 10 feet. If your Nox leaks under those conditions it is defective and should be replaced under the terms of its 3-year warranty. As far as I can tell, ML is honoring the warranty for that situation each and every time on the rare event it does happen. Also, be careful about applying a cover like the one described as the Nox needs to be able to dissipate heat from the housing under high outside ambient temperature conditions and bright sunlight. Some users have reported screen blacking and erratic behavior under extreme heat conditions even with those commonly used slip-on black vinyl sleeves with clear faceplate protectors. Buyer beware. HTH.

Good luck, Mark. Let us know how it turns out.

I still like to complain, in general, but certainly not about this F2 implementation. Still working it out, but I am liking F2 5 as a sweet spot over my tried and true FE 0. Will give it a workout in some mineralized, iron infested relic sites in about three weeks and will learn a lot more about it. Can't wait.

I agree and know of whom you speak, Chuck. #Limited AM Coil Selection is Frustrating

Hooray! Nokta is plugged into the detector user base pulse better than just about anyone else out there. Now how about that concentric Jack wants for number 3, whaddya say Nokta? Rooting for you.

I understand what you are saying and you are dead on that it is all about profit margins. But with more capability crammed into less expensive machines, how long do you think folks are going to continue to pay $300 to $400 more than Simplex for the next higher tier model in return for a host of features and complexity they do not need or desire for want of one or two key features (and minimal additional operational complexity) that appeal to them. I think there is a way to get it done with some sort of pay as you go firmware update path. It is obviously technically feasible as ML has just demonstrated with Equinox by rolling out a firmware update that provides additional iron bias filtering features/capability (for free vs. saving it for the Equinox II and ML built up some good karma from their Equinox user base for this move) and XP has been doing this for years with the Deus platform (you pay for additional capability by purchasing the "more capable" coils, but the programs that contain the features that take advantage of those new coil capabilities are dealt out for free and you get some limited feature upgrades even with the legacy coil hardware). With affordable simultaneous multifrequency technology variants (primarily ML for now), smart coils, wireless comms, electronic updates, waterproof boxes, light weight, compact, travel friendly stems, and ergonomically logical user interfaces already on the street in low to mid range detectors, there is not much technology left on the shelf that can really make a big splash as far as VLF induction balance detectors are concerned (perhaps augmented reality heads up displays that can give you target ID information and prompt you on coil coverage technique or site swing coverage?). Certainly not at the price points of even just a few years ago. So I am thinking that the detector manufacturers may need to re-think and innovate away from the traditional detector business model paradigm that mandates buying a new machine if want new or upgraded features. The profit margins can be made up through pay as you go firmware-based capability upgrades and the tried and true method of charging handsomely for detector accessories like coils and wireless headphones peripherals like headphones and pinpointers. Of course, there are never any free lunches and this approach can be a double edged sword as hardware production cost efficiencies are driven by volume and if less hardware is being produced that drives overhead costs at the manufacturing facilities, etc. Garrett and FT need to get with the program or risk getting further lapped by Nokta, ML, and XP. Just a few "out there" thoughts. Now I am being paged by my peeps as I am overdue back at Area 51. They only let me out for short furloughs now. Cheers from Chase

Yes, they are. Thanks for confirming what I posted above (requoted below), it is nice to know I am not getting bogus info out there. Maybe I need to write less per post so the important info gets seen. . In any event, hope ML comes through for you on this (I see another user was able to return to ML under warranty with the same issue so the odds appear to be in your favor). . Good luck! As Steve said, it is a generous warranty package from ML compared to other detectors so take advantage of the protections to your investment. Well, since all Equinoxes are still under warranty (3 years), why not get them replaced by ML? I have heard of this happening to other users and ML has honored the warranty for this issue.

Jeez I can't seem to win on these new offerings from Nokta and ML. When discussing Vanquish I get accused of unfairly comparing Vanquish to mid and flagship detectors. Here I get flogged for saying Simplex is has design compromises and I am unfairly maligning it vs. Garrett and First Texas flagship offerings. I feel like Rodney Dangerfield. Anyway, let me reset the discussion in an attempt to better explain what I am getting at. In a nutshell, Simplex and Vanquish have radically reset the bar when it comes to value defined as the ratio of features/performance to price. They are going after the entry level market with very, very capable detectors and different design approaches Nokta Simplicity, ML features vs.cost) and save for a few features that I don't see significantly driving actual cost (multiple selectable frequencies in the case of Simplex to name but one) they are tantalizingly close to delivering detectors to the experienced detectorist that perhaps doesn't have the resources to spend the extra $300 to $400 to move up to Multi Kruzer or Equinox. Detectors that perhaps offer more features than they need and/or want for that extra cash save for a few key additional features. Again, I am focused on multiple selectable frequencies which does not seem to be that significant of a cost driver (perhaps $100 if you compare the price if Kruzer vs. Multi Kruzer) because I value that feature and it is a staple of recently released detector models from the companies that have basically lapped the Garrett's and First Texas' flagships of the industry including Nokta, XP, and Minelab (Impact, Multi Kruzer, Anfibio, ORX, Equinox, even the Quest Pro is in on the selectable multiple frequency bandwagon). It has now become as ubiquitous and expected as water resistant/water proof capability and we should not expect flagships to not have these capabilities as a minimum so I dismiss Garrett and First Texas as flagship standard bearers. Manufacturers shoukd strive to shoot way past AT Max and F75 for even mid-level offerings in terms of features. Equinox and Kruzer basically taught us that lesson last year. I love the stripped down simplicity of the Simplex with minimal sacrifice on capability. I also like being able to hit a site with two different frequencies without having to go back to the truck or to interrogate targets on the fly with two different frequencies. It is just part of my routine now. And it doesn't just have to be that feature, let's talk tone options, multiple recovery speeds, etc. What I am talking about is offering tiered, perhaps a la cart features and associated pricing that bridges the feature gap (notice I did not say capability gap) between Simplex+ and Multi Kruzer, for example. With programmability and a common physical Simplex form factor and user interface, I am guessing that someone like Nokta could offer a customizable line of detectors to bridge the feature gap, and make the Simplex the base model for a whole host of COST EFECTIVE detectors that meet the needs of any detectorist at any skill level and/or style of hunting. What I am saying is that Nokta and perhaps ML are at the doorstep of offering that kind of detector with their respective releases of Simplex and Vanquish. Regarding the accessory coil, Steve you are right, I would also be surprised, too, if Simplex did not accommodate a concentric because Nokta does provide a great concentric accessory coil lineup for its detectors, but I thought is was also more surprising that unlike Nokta's previous offerings (Anfibio and Kruzer) and even the similarly priced Minelab Vanquish, there is NO mention of accessory coils coming (correct me if I am wrong on this, but I couldn't find any information on this other than the stock coil offering). I hope that isn't the case and Nokta listens again. But I can only comment on what has been announced re: accessory coils and so far there has been no word. ML on the other hand has some compelling accessory coils already announced for Vanquish. I do expect Nokta to follow suit. And, just to be clear, lest there are any further "misunderstandings", I am not saying Nokta and ML missed the mark on these new offerings. They have hit their target demo dead center. All I am saying is that save for a few feature tweaks (I am sure others have similar but different features on their "wish lists") the Simplex and Vanquish are tantalizingly close to being something an experienced detectorist could excited about even if that requires an incremental price increase over these "entry level" offerings. This is the point, Steve, where you tell me to get more sleep and eat more fruits and vegetables or something like that. Cheers from Chase. (I feel like Jerry McGuire after his sports agent "manifesto" ready to face the jeers and derision of my peers).

I still don’t understand why you are not seeking to have them replaced under warranty.

Nokta is definitely listening to the users. However, the thing to remember is it is called Simplex+ for a reason. Even though it looks nothing like entry level detectors look liked even a just a few years ago, it is still targeted to new users or budget minded detectorists. As a result, there are compromises and limitations inherent in the design. Perhaps Dilek can chime in on Nokta's plans to provide accessory coils or, more specifically, whether the Simplex is even compatible with concentric coils (not a given). In my opinion these groundbreaking (from a features/performance per price ratio perspective) "entry" level detectors from Nokta and Minelab are just one or two "minor tweaks" away from being something an experienced detectorist could consider as their primary detector and not just something to be used as a backup or as a loaner for a newbie or occasional detectorist. Just a few tweaks is important when you are talking about a $300 ($400 for the Multi) difference between a Kruzer and a Simplex. I don't think concentric coil compatibility and perhaps adding a second operating frequency to Simplex are significant from cost perspective (certainly not a $300 to $400 add) but these could make a huge difference to an experienced detectorist and could bump the Simplex up to the next level performance wise without breaking the bank.

Well, since all Equinoxes are still under warranty (3 years), why not get them replaced by ML? I have heard of this happening to other users and ML has honored the warranty for this issue. Just a word of caution, I have had a couple of reports of people not being able to pair these newer version Miccus phones (same model number as the original SR-71's, but some cosmetic and electronic "upgrades" have been incorporated). Miccus support has been responsive, but they acknowledge some sort of compatibility problem now with the Equinox (they have had a number of reports) but say it is up to ML to address. I think they will accept a return in any event, if you run into that problem. Note, one individual I was in contact with couldn't pair the new SR-71's either before or after the most recent Equinox update (i.e., the new Equinox firmware did not fix his existing SR-71 pairing problem). I know this makes no sense if everything is truly BT APTX LL compatible, but there you have it for what it's worth. BTW, I have had the older Miccus SR-71 phones since BEFORE the Equinox came out (I use them with my GPX too and figured they would make a great backup to the ML phones). I've basically been using them instead of the ML phones for both detectors for over a year and a half and the are still going strong. I wish I could confirm the new compatibility issue first hand because I actually like the audio better on the Miccus phones than the ML's (they have better high end response for some reason) and would like to eventually be able to replicate that with a replacement pair should they ever give up the ghost.

Way to instill brand loyalty by listening to your customer base, Nokta. Moving to non-proprietary industry standard low latency wireless (but including the legacy Nokta wireless radio too) would be a great next step on a future Nokta detector line.

Point taken. But as far as Simplex is concerned, GB is automatic on the Simplex and other than sensitivity there isn't that much to tweak performance wise, as that is the whole point of Simplex. Keep it simple out of the box. Turn on and go for the inexperienced detectorist yet give them great performance for 90% of all detecting situations. So they in all liklihood could not eek much more performance out of the Simplex even if they tried to. The user modes and settings really just change the way the targets sound to the user or add/remove iron disc. "That's a digga, bah!"