Chase Goldman

In the simplest terms it is a tradeoff. F2 appears to behave differently than the existing FE iron bias filter and may be stronger at the highest setting (3 for the 600) than the FE filter. For both, the higher setting you use may reduce falsing off round, mixed ferrous like crown caps and other ferrous targets but you may also mask nearby non-ferrous targets by doing so. Test it out on sample bottlecaps and then with a coin next to or on top of tge cap to see which setting best cancels the bottlecap yet still allows you to hear the coin. Note that the best way to tell if a high tone is a ferrous false signal is to go to all metal using the horseshoe butyon and listen for a strong iron grunt along with the high tone.

Need more info. Did you GB? What are your Iron Bias settings? Do you have FE = 0 (the old default) or F2 = 6 invoked?

Doubtful. As stated earlier in the thread, the number of individual frequencies on the Equinox is unrelated to the number of simultaneous frequencies used in Mult IQ other than the Multi IQ frequency profile range encompasses the the 5 individual frequencies. Since Vanquish does not have a single frequency mode, the coil diagram "clue" really doesn't correlate. But who knows, ML appears to revel in these ambiguous pseudo technical graphic design references. I personally find it lies somewhere between insulting and annoying. Hate the marketing, but love the detectors.

Besides the historic context (e.g., if you dig a minie in the vicinity of Gettysburg, then you know it had to be dropped or fired beteen 1 and 3 July 1863 since there was no CW military action there other than those 3 dates), part of the fun of digging CW era bullets (minie balls) is looking for the many different varieties. There are literally hundreds includin carbines and cleaner varieties. It also means that if you are recovering them, you are likely in the right spot to dig the harder to recover and more interesting brass relics such as buttons and plates.

You also really should have removed all disc (AM) so we could hear the intensity of the iron grunt, that is what really confirms the presence of iron, not absence of falsing. Too many discrepancies/inconistencies/ambiguities here for the audience (e.g., single frequency, non- global F2 setting, and disc applied, plus doing it on a surface with rebar underneath) plus no comparison with FE to really conclude anything from the video regarding the new iron bias filter. Thanks for posting nevertheless, a few useful tidbits there regarding response to different gold targets with the new software. Maybe you can apply some of the feedback you received to post an improved video test.

Yep, I recognize we are not dealing with a true all metal mode machine in Equinox even when "AM" mode is invoked removing discrimination but not raw signal processing and filtering. But the thing that I found surprising is that I never would have realized that FE=0 does not turn off the filter without this update being released. The only time iron bias appears to be "off" is single frequency because I think iron bias filter relies on the multi-frequency input of Multi IQ to function, but even then, that is just as educated guess because ML does not clearly state there is no iron bias filtering in single, all I know is that iron bias "is not available" in single which could be referring to the filter adjustment not the filter. I know this is repetitive and in the weeds, but for perspective, I always thought of iron bias as analogous to the XP Deus silencer filter (which supposedly breaks up or filters out mixed ferrous signals and has an adjustable level that is also tied to the recovery speed setting). That silencer filter has a "0" setting but it also has a "-1" setting which XP describes as "off". I usually set it to "-1" because I do not want to experience inadvertent non-ferrous masking due to the silencer filter. I thought I was doing the same on Equinox by setting FE=0, but apparently not. Again, I am down in the weeds here as I tend to go there due to my engineering and software background. I will end by saying that in a practical sense, the fact than neither the FE nor F2 iron bias filters can be truly "turned off" is really not a big deal because it appears the filtering is "minimal" and has little effect on masking at those low settings, but it is, I think, a fact that advanced detectorists should be aware of because the ML documentation is a little ambiguous in that regard. Again, Steve's graphic visualization of the two filters posted above has been very helpful for me and I really appreciate that info as it will affect how I apply them in different situations.

Discrimination and iron bias are two filters that work in tandem. Applying too much of any filter (disc or iron bias) always impacts performance in some way or another as there are no free lunches. In the case of iron bias, too much and you will negate iron falsing but at the expense of possibly causing nearby non-ferrous to be masked. If you outright try to disc out bottlecaps or aluminum tabs in the mid target ID range (e.g., 12 to 15), then you will most certainly also notch out nickels and gold rings that fall in that target ID region. I like to minimize filtering (disc or otherwise) to the extent my brain does not get overloaded or fatigued by the constant chatter, so that invariably means dialing in some disc or perhaps even iron bias. Since Equinox does not have a true all metal mode (there is always some signal processing going on under the hood) even when all discrimination filtering is removed, even iron bias at 0 (either FE=0 or F2=0) does some level of iron bias filtering, albeit low levels and also note that FE=0 and F2=0 do not "turn off" iron bias filtering and those "0" settings are not equivalent (see this post by Steve). If you want to remove all iron bias filtering, your only alternative is to go to single frequency because the iron bias filter relies on the multi-frequency signal of Multi IQ.

Because the filter enhances the iron signal while minimizing the false signal to give you more certainty it is iron. You can't hear that pronounced telltale iron grunt if it is disc'd out.

Steve, The relationship between FE and F2 is fairly simple based on the above representation (thanks for that diagram), but I was surprised to find that what this is really saying is that some sort of iron bias filtering is ALWAYS applied in multi IQ. I always had the mistaken impression that FE=0 meant the iron bias filter was "off". I guess the only time the iron bias filter is turned off is in single frequency when the multi frequency bias curve cannot be calclulated. So F2 =0 vs. FE=0 for maximum unmasking or for "more" all metal in Multi, I suppose Glad ML is giving us choices, but they could do a little better in the explaining department. Folks should not have to dig deep into DP or Tom's forum to figure this stuff out and the new mods to the user guide, especially with respect to the 600 and setting the 800 F2 defaults to 6 across the board are inconsistent with the above and/or are actually confusing. I suppose, most folks fly by the seat of their pants via real world experience and tweak their settings based off what works for them rather than what the book says, but at least something like the above diagram in the book would help. In any event, I'll take it and glad they are still refining the firmware on Equinox nearly two years in. The other thing this shows is that with Multi IQ, ML is starting the "blur" the line between iron discrimination and notch as disc works in conjunction with Iron Bias to provide some sophisticated iron filtering. It is like stacking or chaining filters together in photoshop or video editing. And it is clear that Iron Bias is a "pre-filter" to discrimination in the Equinox. May be a harbinger for a future Multi IQ detector with some sophisticated discrimination patterning like the FBS2 detectors. I would look forward to that detector release if it is coming in the next couple of years.

Good video though incomplete. I'll explain below. The update may actually matter to you, Simon, in regards to nugget hunting. Specifically, the question remains whether FE = 0 (ostensibly iron bias "off") is the same as F2 = 0. Per some of the other Dankowski forum discussions and Clive Clynick, the bias curves may intersect "0" at different points. Or put another way, some are saying that F2 = 0 is "less" than FE=0 making it more "all metal", so to speak. The above video seems to debunk that as FE seems to give similar performance to F2 on iron at 0, but the key is whether F2 at 0 unmasks nearby non-ferrous better than FE at 0 (i.e., any level of iron bias can negate the positive separation effects of higher recovery speeds, so if FE =0 can still be subject to masking and F2 = 0 is less susceptible, you might want to go with F2 = 0 vice FE=0 when nugget hunting). She does not really test the effect of FE vs. F2 bias effects on nearby targets, plus the fact that she is basically doing an "in-plane" air test. So the jury may still be out. Food for thought, though, even for those of us who primarily like to run with FE = 0.

Actually, the 600 vs. 800 iron bias correspondence table in the updated manual does not differentiate between FE and F2 iron bias settings for the 600 and has definitely changed from the previous "non-F2" version that was 1/2, 2/4, 3/6 to now 1/3, 2/6, 3/9 for BOTH FE and F2. Yet that is inconsistent with the line in the manual that comes right before the table that states, "EQUINOX 600/800 Iron Bias Setting Equivalents The following shows the equivalent Iron Bias settings between the two models. EQUINOX 600 offers fewer adjustment increments and a lower maximum Iron Bias than the 800 model.EQUINOX 600/800 Iron Bias Setting Equivalents" So either ML's updated "Equivalents" section is in error or ML actually changed the 600 firmware so the maximum 600 setting of 3 now corresponds to 9 vice 6 on the 800. My money is on a typo in the new table, but as a minimum the wording is inconsustent with the table in the updated manual, so something needs to be fixed to remove the ambiguity for 600 users. Hmmm. Screen shots from each version of the manual are inserted below: Old Manual Upper/Updated Manual lower:

Agree - Based on these and other posts and videos, I have changed my tune and am looking forward to testing F2 out this weekend to see what it has to offer. Also, reading the revised manual, I was intrigued by the statement ML makes that the benefits of F2 are not fully realized unless you are running AM. Interesting.

You are correct. It is a misconception to believe that eddy currents generated by the transmitted magnetic field exist only at the surface of a metallic target. Eddy currents exist as far as the transmitted magnetic field penetrates the target. The penetration depth is a function of many factors including the frequency of the transmitted field, the thickness of the target and the target’s magnetic and electrical properties. So the penetration depth varies significantly depending on the type of metal. In the case of the clad coin, the magnetic field easily penetrates past the thin clad layer into the copper “core”. The larger mass and conductivity of the copper core dominates in terms of signal strength over the thin, lower conductive clad and so the detector primarily “sees” a high conductivity target and registers a target ID appropriate to that higher conductive metal.

F2 seems to be very level dependent on the Nox. The simple high/low Fe adjustment on the 540 might be useful but on the 340/440 you just have "High" with no option to even turn it off on any Vanquish model, so one might be sacrificing some non-ferrous masking for the sake of bottlecap rejection regardless of if it is Fe or F2 bias. Not a tradeoff I would be willing to make, but for the casual detectorist, probably ok.

Also posted in the Equinox forum and discussed at length there if you want to check it out for more info on this update.

Keep innovating and raising the bar Nokta/Makro - just makes everyone work harder to put out quality equipment and value prices which is only good news for us detectorists. Hmm...perhaps my friend Andy has another handbook to write...

Well that makes sense since the updater versions are clearly marked for only Windows or Mac (which I think is new this time around). Wonder if manufacturers are going to start recognizing Chrome OS as a platform for future firmware updates as Chromebooks AND firmware updateable detectors become more common.

Agree - more interested in the "and much more". Was that twist top you tested, Simon, corroded in any manner? Pristine "crown cap" steel or mixed steel caps are going to be hard no matter what. Frankly, if the emphasis of this update is an additional ferrous filter, that is frankly one of the last things I am needing or wanting, especially when it comes to semi-corroded bottlecaps which I can pretty much pick out with very high accuracy due to the ferrous grunt off the coil edge with Fe Bias at 0 and the typical accompanying highly unstable TID. I really am not all that interested in another filter that just sets me up for the possibility of more inadvertent masking of non-ferrous targets near ferrous targets. I have found that all Fe bias does is negate the positive effects of having high recovery speed settings for target separation in thick iron situations and typically run it at 0. Nevertheless, I am interested to see how this does in thick iron situations and to glean whether there are actual useful "and much more" enhancements. The back light fix for the 600 is a good thing for 600 users.

Well, technically, it still is a VLF machine because the multi frequencies it uses are in the VLF elecromagnetic spectrum. VLF is not just limited to single frequency or non-simultaneous multi-frequency machines, but refers to a what are more accurately called induction balance machines (as differentiated from Pulse Induction machines).

Won’t know for a few months when folks actually get some in their hands. I will say that if the locking mechanism works similar to XP who also does not use a round shaft for Deus/ORX, it is pretty reliable for locking and the non-round shaft is not subject to rotational wiggle, but can be subject to flexing with heavier coils.

My ears were burning. First of all, great finds. Yes, your drought is over. Anyway, GB is giving you good advice, 57buick. However, I thought I would clarify some stuff regarding the modes and give you some "operational" pointers for your difficult dense non-ferrous target situation. First of all, on the modes. For the following, I am talking only Park and Field. Beach and Gold modes are very specific to their descriptors, however, those modes have situational application to other situations/targets too - for example, some folks have had good success with Beach modes on very mineralized ground nowhere near any beaches and Gold mode is a great "change of pace" mode for relic or coin hunting or for interrogating targets on the fly, but more about that later. For Park and Field, as GB said, the "1" modes are set up for larger targets and the "2" modes are set up for smaller targets. However, I have a slight correction to what GB said regarding the target types. Specifically, Park 1 and Field 1 are optimized for high conductive targets (like silver or copper and clad coins) and/or large targets based on the "lower weighted" frequency profiles that ML has applied using Multi IQ. Park 2 and Field 2 are optimized for smaller and/or lower conductive targets like lead, aluminum, brass, and gold jewelry and relics. But as GB said, these "optimizations" are really just ML guidelines because just like everything else in detecting, there are no "hard and fast" rules, no certainties (other than your best discriminator is your digger and eyes and you can't detect a target if you don't get your coil over it), and no free lunches. Everything is a matter of tradeoffs. And, yes, I would recommend, hitting that site with more than just one mode even though any one mode should be able to be used to snag a wide variety of targets despite their published "optimized" target objectives. The Equinox, with its various Multi IQ modes, single frequency options, speed settings and gives you versatility unmatched by just about any other detector out there (the Deus comes close and I find myself using one or the other at just about any site I visit as they have complimentary performance - you might want to consider hanging on to yours if you can afford to - the newer X35 coils are amazing and will really open things up). So if you have the luxury of time and unlimited access to that site, definitely hit it with different modes, different settings, and different search patterns. And keep removing the junk that is potentially masking keepers. Many folks do not have the time and/or patience to do so and you will likely be rewarded for doing so. A couple of other "operational" tips - use pinpoint to gage the size of the target > can be useful in IDing aluminum cans which might ring up high. You can trace the "footprint" of the target to quickly tell the difference between a larger target (can) vs. a coin or pull tab. Hit iffy signals with multiple modes (what I call target interrogation). If I am searching for relics, I primarily use field 2 but like to keep either Park 1 or Gold in my User Profile slot for ready access see if the iffy signal changes or a high conductive signal comes out of the muck. Similarly, if I am not already searching in ALL METAL, if I encounter clipped signals, I will turn off disc using the Horseshoe button to see what the signal sounds like. If it has a strong ferrous tone, then likely ferrous falsing, but may still dig it to make sure, but I least my "expectations" are properly set when I dig and I might get pleasantly surprised. This works better in thick iron situations than thick non-ferrous trash situations, but try lowering sensitivity some. That might actually allow deeper keeper, high conductive targets to pop out of the aluminum muck because the detector will be less overloaded by the shallower aluminum tab signal. Like I said, this works better with heavy iron infested ground. Another suggestion is to hit the area with single frequency like 5 or 10 khz to see if you can get high conductive targets to pop more. Anyway, maybe you can try some of these things out. No hard and fast rules, use your go to "optimal" settings and if the site begins to dry up, try something different. No site is ever really hunted out, it just becomes a greater challenge. HTH.

I like that stem design. Very similar to XP Deus. Would be neat if you could attach a different control box to that stem...hmm.

Last post on facebook was from January 2019. He must still betrying to get back on his feet after the Camp Fire destroyed everything including his home and business. Chuck, you can try reaching out to him via email or facebook from the links Steve provided.

FWIW - He last visited the forum in November 2018. Last post was August 2018.

Agree, but he did say scanned 3 ft in every direction around the hole for that very reason. He basically did everything I would have done. The only other thing I can imagine is the phantom was a heavily corroded ferrous disc and corrosion halo (falsing high) instead of a dime that disintegrated upon recovery.