Steve Herschbach Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 Makro Gold Racer and Racer 2 metal detectors Just some tidbits as I play around with these two detectors. The Makro Gold Racer unsurprisingly has an edge on low conductive targets, but even the Makro Racer 2 is geared towards low conductive. Both machines in two tone mode have a VCO type audio response. This means you get not just a solid tone, but a tone that increases with the signal intensity. As you get nearer a target the pitch of the tone increases, to the point that when right on top of a target it can practically squeak. Anyone used to running a Gold Bug will know what VCO audio sounds like. In two tone mode a nail, a dime, and a nickel do not respond quite the way you might think. The nail gives a very low tone response with both detectors. The nickel though will actually sound like a higher tone target than the dime even though in two tone both should in theory be the same. This is because both machines hit harder on a nickel than a dime and the VCO response kicks the tone up. On the Racer 2 and Gold Racer the dime sounds more like a mid tone, the nickel more high tone. This is a relative thing; both items at same depth the nickel hits harder. A deep nickel will sound however like a shallow dime. The Gold Racer at 56 kHz really enhances the low conductive signals, and it hits a nickel twice as hard as a dime. The Racer 2 may be more like a nickel hitting 50% harder than a dime. In two tone mode low conductors really jump out with the Gold Racer. The Racer 2 adds a three tone mode that cleans this up for classic coin hunters. It is far less a VCO effect, more solid tone, and high conductive targets at default settings give a much higher tone. So a nail will go very low tone, nickel solid mid tone, and dime solid high tone, again with minimal VCO effect compared to the two tone modes. Anyone hunting high conductive coins will find Racer 2 three tone mode to generally be the way to go. It is its own mode with its own responses and with a small coil can really do well on coins. That said the Racer 2 is not a depth demon on high conductive coins. I would not buy one just to hunt coins per se if max depth was the goal. It is a relative thing however. I played around with my Deus and 11" round DD coil and it also is no depth demon on high conductive. However, you can flip the Deus from 8 kHz to 18 kHz and watch the responses on a nickel and dime flip right along with the frequency. For just outright depth the Racer 2 and Deus are in the same ballpark in bad ground, but you can get a better high conductive response with Deus at 8 khz than Racer 2 at 14 kHz. My CTX 3030 does better than either in general for depth on coins though again the Racer 2 is very strong on nickels. I do not have the 10x5 elliptical for the Racer 2 so have used both 11x7 elliptical and 5" round DD coils on it. The stock 10x5 DD elliptical on the Gold Racer does a better job at target separation but also punches deeper in bad ground on low conductive targets than the larger coil on the Racer 2. Not in terms of absolute depth per se - it is just that the Gold Racer obtains and maintains a solid non-ferrous signal to better depths while in disc mode. The Racer 2 signal shifts more quickly to a ferrous reading at depth. This is probably a reflection as much of the frequency of the Gold Racer as the coil difference but I do prefer the 10x5 coil with the solid bottom and smaller footprint for what I personally use a detector for. I personally prefer the 5" round DD over the 11x7 DD for the Racer 2 unless I need ground coverage so the optional 10x5 DD would be a good compromise. The Gold Racer with 10x5 coil has tremendous target separation characteristics, easily matching or exceeding my Deus with 11" round DD coil. The super high frequency is unimpressive on high conductive coins at depth, but I have been finding surprising numbers of dimes at fairly shallow depths with it. The high frequency and ground handling I think may give it an edge even on high conductive coins in really bad ground as it hates to let any target VDI numbers get pulled down and with the superb separation - well, lets just say the Gold Racer does far better in parks than I was anticipating, but not because it punches real deep (except on low conductors) than perhaps because of its target separation/ground separation characteristics. The 10x5 concentric on the Gold Racer cleans up the complex multi signal that you tend to get with shallow targets and a DD coil, but does not handle the bad ground as well. It does seem to do even better on low conductors relative to high conductors in bad ground. It is as if the ground effect is canceling the high conductors more than the low conductors with the concentric coil. To the point where a nickel will bang out at twice the depth of a dime using the concentric on the Gold Racer. There currently is no concentric for the Racer 2. I prefer the 10x5 DD on the Gold Racer overall, as the mixed signal on shallow targets tells me they are shallow. But I like the concentric also - I just have not used both in enough different scenarios to have a hard grip on which is best for which situations. I do have two Gold Racers so will have to rig one up with the DD and one the concentric and run together to get a better feel on this. The Racer 2 oddly enough overloads more easily than the Gold Racer on shallow targets. Again I can use the overload as a shallow target indicator so it is not a bad thing, just a difference. Might bug some people though. My gut tells me the Racer 2 will overload on really, really bad ground that the Gold Racer will handle with no problem, but again coils play into that. The Gold Racer splits ferrous from non-ferrous at 40 and the Racer 2 makes the break at 10 (out of 0 - 99 on both machines). This is fine for most items. However, for non-ferrous in bad ground the Gold Racer has the distinct edge. Normal small ferrous on the Gold Racer bangs hard at about 21. The same item on the Racer 2 will hit at about 4. In bad ground, a small item like the smallest lead split shot fishing sinker you can get, will drift as low as about 4 with the Racer 2. The Gold Racer will see a similar item drifting no lower than about 35. That means on the Racer 2 ferrous and non-ferrous can bump right up against each other at about 4. I have been running my Racer 2 with ID filter and tone break set to 4 or maybe even 3 but have not settled on which might be best yet - probably just depends on the situation. The Gold Racer on the other hand you have a 14 point spread between where ferrous normally hits at 21 and a normal low end non-ferrous response at about 35. This is huge and means you have a far better ability to get clean separation between small non-ferrous and ferrous in bad ground. I like hunting jewelry and so depth is not a big issue. I like to hunt more for targets that have both extremely tight VDI clusters and strong responses that indicate they are not super deep. The 56 kHz and VCO response in two tone mode is really working for me. I basically hunt for "squeakers" and the Gold Racer really makes low conductive targets squeak. It is like hunting with a Deus in Pitch Mode. The Racer 2 works for this also but not as well due to the lower operating frequency. I really am just blabbing observations here in hopes there might be useful tidbits for somebody. I right now have four machines that overlap to some degree - Gold Racer, Racer 2, Deus, and CTX. More and more I am finding what works for me is a collection of specialty machines with specific uses. Minelab GPZ - nearly all nugget detectingGarrett ATX - water detecting DFX/Bigfoot - jewelryMinelab CTX - coin detecting The Gold Racer at 56 kHz is different enough to fit the bill for me as a specialty unit. Great for gold the GPZ can't see, or nuggets in trashy areas. But I am finding it to be a great park and tot lot hunter, not just for jewelry but for quite a pile of coins that have been popping up while jewelry detecting. Kind of like hunt jewelry and find lots of coins by accident. So it joins the group above. The Deus just has its own kind of magic and lots to learn there for me, so it stays put for awhile, possibly as part of the permanent collection. The Racer 2 though I am struggling with in a way. It is a great all around detector, and if it was all I had I would be quite happy. I prefer it to many of the other 13 - 15 khz machines on the market. But when I put it up against my core units - well, I like the Gold Racer more for gold/jewelry detecting. And I like the CTX more for chasing silver coins. The Racer 2 actually does give the Deus a run due to the small coil but the Deus has the four frequencies to work with and weighs a pound less. Costs twice as much also! So I run into a situation where the Racer 2 like the Fisher F75 or Garrett AT Pro or Minelab 705 or Teknetics T2 or White's MXT is a superb do-it-all machine. But for any one given task, one of my specialty units will eclipse every one of those detectors. So while I am in no hurry to part ways with the Racer 2 I am not really counting it as a core necessity unit either. It may do nearly everything well but I have not found that one magic thing it does better than anything else - and that is what it takes for a detector to find a permanent place in my collection. The Gold Racer though is getting double duty. If I go gold prospecting my GPZ is main unit, Gold Racer secondary though for specific situations the Gold Racer is lead unit. Same situation now exists with my DFX/Bigfoot and Gold Racer but a bit more a pair of equals there. The DFX/Bigfoot is for any large area. But for anywhere I really want to clean it up the Gold Racer does the trick so for tot lots and similar situations the Gold Racer is the better jewelry machine and a clad coin vacuum. P.S. The main thing I really like on the Racer 2 is the ability to set three custom tone ranges each with their own tone, and also an iron volume setting. If I had to choose a machine just for jewelry detecting it would be the alternative to the DFX because of this. If there was a Bigfoot type coil for the Racer 2 then it is almost certain I would sell the DFX and replace it with the Racer 2. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldbrick Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 Wow, there is a lot of info packed into that post. I will have to read it a couple more times when I get the chance. I am jealous you have been playing with your Racers. My Gold Racer control box developed a problem right off and I had to send it in. Detector Electronics was great to deal with. Sent a new control box pronto but I have been away at work for some time. I look forward to detecting some tailing piles in SW OR pocket country soon. Have you had a chance to run the large coil on the Gold Racer in placer tailings? It seems counter-intuitive to me to use such a large coil in cobbles. Is the depth gained that much more and is that the advantage you seek rather than sweep coverage? Thanks for the most excellent post. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike C... Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 Good write up Steve-I picked me up a gold racer just to see what all the hype was about-took it out to a pounded patch and it got its first blood a 2.9 grainer at about 2-3 inches down-I havent tried to coin beep with it yet but as you said Im sure it will hit hard on lower conductors because of the 56 Khz-I was thinking about getting a racer 2 but for coin beepin I like to have a notch feature which I didnt see on the racer 1-does the racer 2 have notch ? Thanks I always trust what you have to say about beepers-- Mike C... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Herschbach Posted May 15, 2016 Author Share Posted May 15, 2016 Hi Mike, The Red Racer I think is a better unit for simply hunting all non-ferrous because it has that 0 - 40 ferrous range versus the Racer 2 ferrous range of 0 - 10. However, that means more non-ferrous range for Racer 2 plus unlimited notching plus custom three tone system plus iron volume. Far, far more ability to cherry pick the non-ferrous, which in my opinion makes it a superior jewelry detector. It also is a very good coin detector, but again just not anything more than good depth on high conductive. Very fast recovery time. Overall just a really good detector for the money - see all the details at http://www.detectorprospector.com/forum/topic/1628-announcing-the-new-makro-racer-2/ Racer 2 strong points - superior jewelry detector, superb salt water capability for a single frequency detector, excellent tone/notch customization. Weak points - only ok depth on high conductors (copper penny, dime, etc.) Also hard to get clean ferrous and non-ferrous separation due to compressed ferrous range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Herschbach Posted May 15, 2016 Author Share Posted May 15, 2016 5 hours ago, goldbrick said: Have you had a chance to run the large coil on the Gold Racer in placer tailings? It seems counter-intuitive to me to use such a large coil in cobbles. Is the depth gained that much more and is that the advantage you seek rather than sweep coverage? Hi Merton, I have only had one chance so far to run Gold Racer in cobbles with large coil. I have a huge number of hours using VLF machines in tailing piles. The theory is small targets are not the main goal, but instead larger gold. Like multi ounce nuggets. That being the case I generally want best performance on 1/4 oz gold nugget or U.S. nickel as surrogate. The Gold Racer large 15x13 coil would have a huge depth advantage over the 10x5 coil plus 50% better coverage. I will do some nickel tests soon plus a large nugget test and report back. You want depth on larger gold combined with ability to disc deep ferrous junk in tailings. If junk levels are not bad just use a PI, but with many tailing piles that can mean an hour to excavate a can. My basic gut feeling was the Gold Racer with large coil may be exceptional as a tailing pile machine, caveat being possible issues with tailings that are rife with hot rocks. Just coincidence it being one of the best built large coils I ever owned - solid but relatively light for its size. But again, after running a GPZ everything seems light! More research/field testing needed on this subject. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don71 Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 Great post Steve! I have been considering the Racer 2 for coin hunting but I have bad mineralized ground in Central Washington State. Do you think the Racer 2 would offer any depth advantage on a dime (for example) over the Fisher F19? I get a maximum 4-5" of depth on a dime in my ground with the F19. The F19 lacks depth but it's very fast and I can clean coins out of an area quickly. It also handles the ground very well. I just feel the machine is missing the deep older stuff. In addition, I have the AU Gold Finder (Gold Racer Circuit) and have been surprised at how hard it will hit on coins with great clear signals. But it also goes only to about 5" maximum depth on a dime. I managed to find a 1924 Silver Mercury dime by accident with it the other day. (Old mining camp in the town of Liberty) The AU Gold Finder handles ground even better than the F19. Thanks, Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auminesweeper Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 geez Don if those machine don't go too deep I think you are in need of a PI but one that can be used for coin hunting, It will be interesting to see Steve's view on this. john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Herschbach Posted May 15, 2016 Author Share Posted May 15, 2016 Hi Don, I have an early AU Gold Finder, same machine as Gold Racer for sure. Nice that the coils interchange. I would not expect much more depth on silver with a Racer 2 as compared to F19. As I noted, high conductor coins is not a particular Racer 2 strength. The F19 actually is a terrific detector, very good of course on low conductors in particular due to its 19 kHz frequency. If you really want a better silver machine a few more bucks for something like a Minelab Safari would be worth it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don71 Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 Thanks Steve, I will look into the Minelab Safari and have been thinking a long time about a CTX 3030. (The CTX is just so darn expensive.) John, I would like to have a PI for coin detecting but we need to wait for the GPZ 8000 for that discrimination. -Don 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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