Manticore In Iron (nail Beds)

[Chase Goldman]

Great video in terms of production quality and content.

I am amused by comments above like the nail issue being "played out" for views (other you tubers) and that the iron seems "pretty clear".  Yes there are tells (the delay) just as with all recent detectors, but still pretty subtle even for the experienced detectorist. 

The point CD and even Brass Medic are making (but expressing it in different ways) is that with the bells and whistles features you are paying for (i.e., target trace with upper ferrous limits targeted specifically for nails), you should not have to rely on subtle or not so subtle tells that tell you NOT to believe what the detector is indicating.  Brass Medic himself says that the machine needs an update.  Especially with that last beer can target that could not be differentiated from a coin on target trace (again, you could lift the coil or use pinpoint to get a feel of the target footprint, but that trick can be accomplished with the Nox or D2 or Legend, as well).

So definitely, this should be addressed by ML at some point.  I have no doubt they are working on it, but the question is, can it be addressed?  BTW, I have used the "iron delay" technique with both Equinox and D2 so I am not unfamiliar with using that technique.  It is something that gets integrated with your muscle memory when you've spent enough hours with a detector and is something that is hard to replicate with any visual display.

So far, depth appears to be the main advantage over 900 because target trace and upper ferrous limit filtering still appears to be a work in progress.  Some of the factory mode presets appear useful, in the sense that they can be easily accessed vs. having to custom program into the Nox with its limited single personal search profile slot.  Hopefully, ML can get there on improving high tone falsing on small iron using upper ferrous limits consistent with their original design objectives without having to rely on subtle tells and to address TT shortcomings on large aluminum, but I'll likely lean heavily on audio over TT visual, regardless, if I do ultimately invest in an M-core. 

Bottom line, that means any real advantage of M-core vs. Nox gets basically narrowed down to deep high conductor situations in mild soil and little small ferrous trash.  Sort of the CTX one-trick-pony advantage vs. 900 - a decent advantage for those needing this specific performance advantage - but pretty incremental so, as I've said before, everyone has to decide for themsekves if the extra cost makes sense.  Depth advantage gets lost in hot soil if it's being driven by coil power because that approach simply lights up hot ground.  Hopefully, I can get a fully functional Nox 900 in my hands soon so I can run it through its paces vs. 800 and D2, especially in hot dirt.  I will stick to my plan of not considering the M-core until the small coil is released, and hopefully these issues will be addressed in a timely M-core update or two, by then., if I feel they are worth the extra $$.

Nothing wrong with that, D2 went through very similar growing pains earlier this year, and we're still waiting for that final non-beta SW release from XP.  But D2 has snagged plenty of quality targets in the mean time and I'm sure M-core will too for those who have decided to early adopt.  However, unlike ML with the surprise release of the 900 vs. the M-core release,  no real alternative to D2 is available (other than the lite configurations).  That's what makes 900 a compelling value alternative M-core in its present unfinished state.

 

[abenson]

Good video, watched it yesterday. But I mean really, if a person has to listen for subtle audio differences and delay. What is the point of having target trace? This may be why there have been so few units released, to see how many people complain about its performance in iron.

If your just going to hunt for silver coins there probably isn't an issue. Because from what I've seen most of the iron targets that are getting painted as good fall in the lower conductor range. So you would set the machine up similar to a CTX or eTrac with disc patterns that target silver.

[Past Member]

37 minutes ago, abenson said:

 

If your just going to hunt for silver coins there probably isn't an issue. Because from what I've seen most of the iron targets that are getting painted as good fall in the lower conductor range.

If I remember correctly, the iron was ID'ing as high silver. Similar to iron wrap around.

[abenson]

7 minutes ago, Digalicious said:

If I remember correctly, the iron was ID'ing as high silver. Similar to iron wrap around.

Depends on which video you watch. I've seen anything from low 20's to low 80's in various videos. All I'm saying is if you are chasing primarily silver you should be able to setup a pattern that will significantly cut down on digging iron. If you've ever used an eTrac you'll know what I'm talking about. When I stuck to coin patterns on the eTrac I dug very little iron. Once I started trying to get creative with unmasking I started digging more iron.

But in any case the Manticore is no relic hunting machine from what I've seen. Way too much iron being dug.

[Chesroy]

I just feel that detecting is always about sound and the way we interpret it, experience and hours spent with the machine enhance it further. The tricks of the trade we learn along the way and the curiosity to dig that signal that we  subconsciously know needs to be dug all adds to the thrill of finding something worthwhile. Eyes can deceive. I love this hobby I am always surprised when I least expect it and a wonderful find emerges from the hole.

[Carolina]

3 hours ago, Chase Goldman said:

I will stick to my plan of not considering the M-core until the small coil is released, and hopefully these issues will be addressed in a timely M-core update or two, by then., if I feel they are worth the extra $$.

I myself will stick with the Deus ll until the Manticore starts showing up on eBay for a much lower price. If they don’t show up, I am happy with the Deus ll.

Good luck everybody and HAPPY NEW CONGRESS UHH I MEAN YEAR!!!

[Chase Goldman]

1 hour ago, Chesroy said:

I just feel that detecting is always about sound and the way we interpret it, experience and hours spent with the machine enhance it further. The tricks of the trade we learn along the way and the curiosity to dig that signal that we  subconsciously know needs to be dug all adds to the thrill of finding something worthwhile. Eyes can deceive. I love this hobby I am always surprised when I least expect it and a wonderful find emerges from the hole.

Totally agree with what you are saying.  But ML is asking folks to literally buy into (as in fork over more money) for TTrace to do the following on nails:

when it is clearly not quite there as evidenced in the videos coming out.  I too am adept at the iron audio tells using Nox.  But if one wants to simply use audio tells, then why would they not just simply stick with the 800 or 900?  That's the point people are trying to make, they are holding ML accountable for the features promised.  Not just bashing ML or M-core solely for the sake of bashing and shouldn't simply be dismissed as drama mongers.

 

[phrunt]

What I don't get is they took what, 3 years developing the Manticore? Now in the hands of a small number of people they're instantly claiming to find issues with it that need fixed, why in the 3 years and however long it went through testing did this not get brought up?   We are assuming they're now rapidly trying to make a new firmware release for this undiscovered until now problem, how did it go missed in all their testing?

I'm puzzled by the testing process of their detectors, it seems so many obvious things go completely missed or dismissed.

[Jeff McClendon]

I am not a drama monger.

I am also not a potential Manticore buyer at this point. Like Carolina and Chase and others…..I am going to wait. 

Part of the reason for waiting has not changed from the moment I learned of this detector. Personally, the way I hunt right now and what I hunt…..I don’t need Target Trace. 

That not needing it is now being reinforced by the field testing after purchasing that has been reported online as videos or forum posts concerning the Manticore, Target Trace, Iron Limits and iron targets clearly reporting as non-ferrous enough to dig them. 

I too have learned the Equinox audio iron “tells” and tricks that go way beyond what the display may say in terms of target ID.

As Abenson said earlier and I will support……previous iterations of the Equinox can have non-ferrous responses from iron and steel targets occurring absolutely anywhere on the target ID scale.