Manticore Complaints?

[Steve Herschbach]

49 minutes ago, Chesroy said:

I like to be educated by those who know better, if you don't ask you don't get ?. I've never been to proud to ask and happy to take on board what knowledge people are generous enough to give me, we learn something new every day hopefully. 

Yeah, I apologize if I made it seem otherwise. I guess I'm in a happy place, with detectors that are all I could ever dream of for a very long time. Equinox was the first VLF that finally incorporated what I knew was possible the day I first laid hands on a White's V3i, just sad that it took somebody other than White's to see the potential. And GPX 6000 finally gave me a high power PI in a package I can swallow. As far as I am concerned machines like the Legend, Deus 2, and Manticore are just gravy, as is the Axiom. It was Equinox and GPX 6000 that got me to the happy place I knew was possible for so many years. Good times as far as I am concerned.

[scoopjohnb]

My experience with a loaner Manty was indeed a bit of false positive signaling. I certainly wouldn't have them change that.

It keeps you curious, you investigate and indeed better to dig a "dud" than to leave a "Ding" in the ground ?

False negatives are a whole other ball game. I had one such experience with my Deus 2 it called a good target iron when I disturbed the soil matrix with a few digs. I was tired and cold from a whole weekends detecting and couldn't get it to signal non-ferrous again. So left the hole as it was. Behind me comes a Manty user and from my hole get's a decent false positive non-ferrous signal. And pulls out a 2000 year old roman fibula from my dig hole.

As you can imagine Deus 2 left the building at warp speed!!

So I'm personally done with all this whining and moaning about Iron falsing and digging a few nails. Nail out of the ground,... better field of view for a decent target that was unmasked by the good old digger ?

My biggest moan about Manty,.... don't get me started about that D2 unit!!!!

[abenson]

36 minutes ago, Steve Herschbach said:

Yeah, I apologize if I made it seem otherwise. I guess I'm in a happy place, with detectors that are all I could ever dream of for a very long time. Equinox was the first VLF that finally incorporated what I knew was possible the day I first laid hands on a White's V3i, just sad that it took somebody other than White's to see the potential. And GPX 6000 finally gave me a high power PI in a package I can swallow. As far as I am concerned machines like the Legend, Deus 2, and Manticore are just gravy, as is the Axiom. It was Equinox and GPX 6000 that got me to the happy place I knew was possible for so many years. Good times as far as I am concerned.

Once I get a Manticore, I don't see me buying another metal detector for a very long time. Anything released from this point forward is going to have to be pretty damn spectacular for me to want to purchase it. Time to learn what I have and get really proficient with them. All the latest VLF's that have hit the market by XP, Minelab and Nokta Makro are going to make it a real uphill battle for Fisher and Garrett IMO. Which is too bad.

[Steve Herschbach]

16 minutes ago, abenson said:

Once I get a Manticore, I don't see me buying another metal detector for a very long time. Anything released from this point forward is going to have to be pretty damn spectacular for me to want to purchase it. Time to learn what I have and get really proficient with them. All the latest VLF's that have hit the market by XP, Minelab and Nokta Makro are going to make it a real uphill battle for Fisher and Garrett IMO. Which is too bad.

Fisher is pretty much out of it, so those of us hoping for a competitive U.S. manufacturer really only have Garrett to hang our hat on anymore. They desperately need a competitive new flagship multi at this point. Axiom is great, but not what 98% of the U.S. buyers are looking for. Whatever, in the end I don't care too much who makes it, as long as it works, and right now we have some great detectors that really work.

[steveg]

1 hour ago, Steve Herschbach said:

That’s because you dig those and not the other. An error in your sampling methodology.  False positives are not actually a problem, just an annoyance. Trust me, there are huge numbers of good targets left to dig between being called ferrous when they are not, and masking. People think they take a Deus 2 or whatever to the dense ferrous and have cleaned it out? Really? You are just scratching the surface.

Seriously, a detector should be giving you false positives and making you dig some ferrous when it said it was not. If you never dig any ferrous, you are leaving lots of good finds in the ground, for the reason I have stated. Which are the false negatives.

My idea of leaps is a higher bar. It was a leap when we went from no ground balance, to having ground balance. It was a leap when we went from having no discrimination, to having discrimination. It was a leap when we went from no tones, to having tones. It was a leap when we went from one knob variable disc, to notch disc capability. Even getting fast multi in Equinox I would say was a genuine advance.

EMI cancel working a little better? Not so much. But having lived and seen those other things actually happen, I suppose my perspective is different.

 

Steve,

Oh, yes -- I see your point now.  I TOTALLY concur that partially masked targets (and FULLY masked ones, for that matter), abound, such that if you are not digging ANY iron, you are missing good stuff.  I totally get that.  And I get that even with the best unmasking unit (Deus probably?), you will still not detect a huge number of non-ferrous if you are in a heavily iron-polluted site.  I'm with you there...

And yes, I can see your point on the "leaps" that you have seen in your "detecting career."  NO doubt, those things you talk about are indeed HUGE leaps.  Leaps that dramatically "change the game" so to speak.  I guess my only point was, we are at the point where it seems to me that the law of diminishing returns seems to now apply.  Let's say it took 2 years of solid, high-level engineering to move from no discrimination, to discrimination.  Huge leap, indeed.  But today, since there's not that much blood left to squeeze from this turnip, 2 years of EQUALLY solid, high-level engineering may be required for much smaller technological advancements.  Still noteworthy (generational?) advancements, it seems to me, from an engineering perspective, but since most of the "blood" is already squeezed, these current (and future) advancements seem to me to be much more unlikely to result in any MAJOR improvements that would be sufficient to "wow" the average detectorist (such as moving from no discrimination, to discrimination).  In other words, I agree with you in that it's unlikely we see anything TRULY game-changing, until/unless we move to a different "platform."  AND SO, we should all set our expectations accordingly, all marketing hype aside...  ?

Steve

[longbow62]

The Manticore is my last new detector for the foreseeable future. I plan on getting the small coil for it when it becomes available, then that's it I'm done. Its going to take a major leap for me to even consider another detector.  

[canslawhero]

43 minutes ago, longbow62 said:

Its going to take a major leap for me to even consider another detector

5 years from now ML will come out with an FE-CO screen, 3-D display 'OrgasmaCore' and it'll be deja vu all over again...

[dsb]

24 minutes ago, canslawhero said:

5 years from now ML will come out with an FE-CO screen, 3-D display 'OrgasmaCore' and it'll be deja vu all over again...

Better be attached to a power wheelchair?

[strick]

8 hours ago, steveg said:

Can you elaborate a bit on "lower shaft a bit flimsy?"  

Steve

Steve it does not flex with the 11" coil. The diameter is smaller than what was used on the Nox. I don't know what the thickness is but I could measure it and get back. I was saying "some" may think that so maybe the surf guys? I'm careful not to lean on it...I guess we will have to see how it does with the large beach coil. 

strick