A Few Observations On The Manticore, After About 50 Hours (and A Few Recent Nice Finds)...

[steveg]

40 minutes ago, UT Dave said:

After talking to Andrew about it, I went out to my test garden.  And found that on the old version, not the update, in ATHC, I can make a 7" silver dime have more scattered ID and more "smeary" audio by just increasing the sensitivity from 18 to 25.  The Manticore is still "stable" at 25 in my backyard, without chatter, but the ID's get quite noticeably more jumpy and the audio suffers accordingly with the increased sensitivity.  At 18 and a controlled short sweep the numbers are within 5 digits between 75-80 repeatedly.  At 25, the low numbers go slightly lower but it's the high numbers which go kind of bonkers with 90's coming up about every other sweep and high 80's popping up a lot.  So, more like 20 numbers between 74-94, with even a 98 or two popping up.

I believe @phrunt has been saying for some time that decreased sensitivity gives him more stable ID's with no apparent loss of depth, before the update.

That dime, my backyard dirt, recovery speed of 6 or 7 is best, too.

Coming from an 800, reducing sensitivity and increasing recovery speed don't seem intuitive ways to improve deep target response.  I think the Manticore really is a different animal altogether and the suggestion to not treat it like an Equinox is good advice.

- Dave

 

Interesting for sure.  I believe I was running sensitivity 25  -- no issues at all with EMI -- the day I dug the Seated and the Reale.  I was at recovery speed 4.  Looks like I have some ideas to test...i.e. to bump UP on the recovery speed, and DOWN on the sensitivity, and scrutinize to see how this changes the response on deep coins...

Steve

[Steve Herschbach]

On 7/31/2023 at 11:01 AM, UT Dave said:

After talking to Andrew about it, I went out to my test garden.  And found that on the old version, not the update, in ATHC, I can make a 7" silver dime have more scattered ID and more "smeary" audio by just increasing the sensitivity from 18 to 25.  The Manticore is still "stable" at 25 in my backyard, without chatter, but the ID's get quite noticeably more jumpy and the audio suffers accordingly with the increased sensitivity.  At 18 and a controlled short sweep the numbers are within 5 digits between 75-80 repeatedly.  At 25, the low numbers go slightly lower but it's the high numbers which go kind of bonkers with 90's coming up about every other sweep and high 80's popping up a lot.  So, more like 20 numbers between 74-94, with even a 98 or two popping up.

I believe @phrunt has been saying for some time that decreased sensitivity gives him more stable ID's with no apparent loss of depth, before the update.

That dime, my backyard dirt, recovery speed of 6 or 7 is best, too.

Coming from an 800, reducing sensitivity and increasing recovery speed don't seem intuitive ways to improve deep target response.  I think the Manticore really is a different animal altogether and the suggestion to not treat it like an Equinox is good advice.

- Dave

 

I can only repeat so many times that the Manticore at 1/2 to 3/4 settings is like a maxed out Equinox. The Manticore has extra headroom, but only for locations and situations that allow it. Anyone with a mindset that they can drive a Ferrarri with the pedal mashed to the floor anywhere all the time is going to crash and burn with Manticore. It is imperative that people back it down and then work their way up. Again, target ID stability is a great tool for determining when you have good settings, and above that, well, yeah, it's going to get squirrely.

I was swinging this machine before anyone here even knew it existed, probably before Tom D. I'm not just opinionating - I'm trying to help you all out with this. But nuff said, good luck! 

[phrunt]

I'm happy on 16 to 18 for my sensitivity for coins, It appears I'm losing no depth at those levels over my Nox and it's more stable on the ID's.  Over 20 I start to notice the ID's going downhill and by 25 they're pretty bad on the older firmware.  I have places I can run at 35 and the detector is perfectly stable, no EMI issues yet the target ID's just aren't good at such high sensitivity levels.  

Where I can see the high sensitivity levels being beneficial is prospecting when I can get the little coil, I don't care about ID's then, I'm digging everything so hopefully it gives it a little boost over the Nox.

There is a learning curve with the Manticore that's for sure, it's not just a Nox that's got more bells and whistles, it's a different animal.  

I think they've adjusted the sensitivity level scale on the new firmware, as the ID's did improve in higher sensitivity levels all the way up to 24 for me really but I think 24 now was 20 on the old firmware or something similar.

If I'm detecting a place that I want to cherry pick for stuff and dig as little as possible the CTX, Nox 800 and Vanquish are certainly the better choices than the Manticore though.   I can pick our coins with about 90% accuracy on them, about 60% on the Manticore.  Maybe with time and more experience I will improve on the Manty.

[abenson]

I was pretty comfortable with the Manticore before the update. Had settings that were producing good finds and I was just starting to really get it figured out. If I think back I don't recall ever really saying anything bad about the Manticore. And for the most part I've been pretty quiet about the Manticore in general. Then Minelab released the update and everything went out the window, in some ways that has been good because it's forced me to think outside the box when it comes to setting up the Manticore for different sites. If Minelab does another update all I'm about to say could change. Remember I have mid to high mineralized dirt and most places also have a considerable amount of alkaline too. So my settings may not work for you. But they may help you in some way.

A lot of my settings and general thought process about how to setup the Manticore for different sites has changed over the last 2 weeks. AT LC is still my preferred mode for general relic hunting and trashy iron sites. AT HC would be my preferred mode if I did much park hunting, which I don't (but I have recently just to do testing). I'm going to leave the beach out of this for now because I haven't beach hunted for a few months and not at all with the update. What I'm finding for my area is I can't have it all with one mode. If I'm hunting for copper or silver coins I need to use AT HC, if I'm relic hunting I need to use AT LC. Those modes just perform better for the specific targets I'm looking for. Some people are saying general or fast works best for them and that's great, probably determined by the type of soil you have. But for me it's AT LC and AT HC.

With the Update I've found the biggest factors that affect Manticore stability and performance are recovery speed and sensitivity, this could also be true for the old version, but it's not as apparent in my ground. Before the update I was using recovery at 3 or 4 and sensitivity at a level just below what EMI or ground conditions would allow. The Manticore did ok with these settings, but was still a little sparky and ID on deep targets were not the best. But it was doable.

Over the last week I've just figured out with the update, I'm sure this will spill over into the earlier version. Running recovery at 6 and sensitivity at a level far below what is actually stable is the best combination for most modes on the Manticore. The video below shows just how much higher sensitivity affects depth and target ID.

From all this I learned above I went to my local park yesterday that has pretty bad mineralization and used AT HC with recovery at 6, sensitivity at 18, 1 region all tones, default ferrous limits. In some areas I had to lower the sensitivity to 14 due to EMI. I didn't find anything spectacular, but it was the most enjoyable hunts I think I've had to date with the Manticore. Iron sounded like iron, coins sounded like coins and had 3-4 digit ID spreads, trash sounded like trash and had 8-10 digit ID ranges. I did dig 3 deep nails but I knew they were going to be nails, just wanted to test my theory. Nickels were 26-28 and targets I dug outside that range were always trash like pull tabs and balls of foil. Copper pennies and dimes had a nice tight 3-4 digit ID range 77-80, quarters were pretty dead on 87/88. Deepest target I dug was 8" and was a copper snap about the size of a dime, ID was a little jumpy but it never had and iron grunt to it. Where as the nails had iron grunt with a high tone in the penny/clad dime range.

 

 

[Gold Catcher]

2 hours ago, phrunt said:

I don't care about ID's then, I'm digging everything so hopefully it gives it a little boost over the Nox.

Why not using the 6000 then if you don't care about IDs and dig everything? Just curious because I plan to use the Maticore only for trashy areas where I really need some sort of ID. Any other advantages that would favor the Manticore over the 6000? Thx.

GC

[phrunt]

1 hour ago, Gold Catcher said:

Why not using the 6000 then if you don't care about IDs and dig everything? Just curious because I plan to use the Maticore only for trashy areas where I really need some sort of ID. Any other advantages that would favor the Manticore over the 6000? Thx.

GC

Because the VLF's find the smallest gold better than the 6000, even in 6000 dig holes from recovering a bigger bit you can find very small bits the 6000 is blind to with a VLF.   It all adds up and the tiny ones are fun to find and we tend to have a lot more very small gold than bigger bits here.

[fishersari]

2 hours ago, abenson said:

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Oh snap.. up average to 98.. I notched out 98-99 tonally since last 2 weeks. I didn't find anything good of ID at 98-99 for the last 6 months..  

 

[UT Dave]

2 hours ago, abenson said:

 

 

 

I think this may well be the most helpful Manticore video I have watched to date.  Thanks @abenson!  I know how much work it is not only to do the testing, the back and forth with the updates, the coils, all of that - but also the video production.  The effort is appreciated and I think will be helpful to many.

That up averaging with the M8 IS troubling...

- Dave

[GB_Amateur]

On 7/31/2023 at 5:55 PM, abenson said:

The video below...

Excellent, informative video as always.  What I noticed (at least I think I did) besides what you commented on was the target trace for the clean sounding signals didn't match the audio.  Ok, when the dime was 98-99 the target trace was where it should be -- on the centerline -- but for the other targets the trace was in the lower section right on the mask setting line.