Nugget Finder Z-search 3 Different Version Coils?

[Gerry in Idaho]

On 11/23/2023 at 2:40 PM, Jonathan Porter said:

The last few years have been tough on a lot of people and businesses all over the world. That tough will have a flow on effect in economies and peoples lives for a long time to come. In the gold game nothing is ever what it seems and conjecture will almost always lead to getting things wrong which can then lead to supposition and even embellishment dependant on the discourser, the platform and their POV. Take everything you read online with a grain of salt, especially repetitive factoids, very few people have an inside scoop on the truth.

Right now there are plenty of quality coil choices for the 6000 with more in the offing and there is absolutely nothing wrong with what comes supplied. The GPX6000 is a fickle highly strung beast that pushes the PI envelope beyond extremes, that’s why it costs the big bucks.
 

To an end user it seems so simple to turn on and go and ping a piece of gold. It would have to be THE most ridiculously easy machine I have ever used in 28 years of field testing. It is light weight, it has minimal simplistic controls, it’s user interface is not complex, it is a field trainers delight, but that’s where the simplicity ends. The underpinning tech is the complete opposite, it is complex and powerful and requires very fine tolerances to get right, it took huge amounts of R&D effort to get it to the finished product.

Just my 2 cents worth of opinion

JP

 

 

JP, As mentioned on DP before, your words/comments are very well respected in the PI and gold prospecting industry. 

I agree that the GPX-6000 is most simple and hi performance.  In my opinion, it's too easy and not enough features for the advanced users.  I also know the detectors are usually built for the masses of people and their knowledge or lack of.  Like the Gold Monster 1000, the GPX-6000 is missing some potential, in my opinion.  The Garrett Axiom (another high-end performing PI option at a much better price), gives us features the GPX-6000 does not.

Here is where I read your comments and wonder. Do you feel the next high end ZVT technology detector will be as simple as a GPX-6000 or allow the user to have more control and feature options?  I would think, a lighter housing GPZ with the ZED Timings, but at the same time hopefully get the super Sensitivity of GPX-6000/Axiom on small gold and specimens. 

Heck, it might even be easier to take the GPZ-7000 technology and put it in the GPX-6000 housing.  I realize the DOD coil weight will still be an issue, but only on the larger coils.  We've already seen the aftermarket coil options and their weight/sensitivity advantages.

Since you are one of Minelabs primary Field Testers, please inform them to go triangular on the shafts and this will help with the coil shift that is so common on the GPX-6000.  One thing about manufacture competition, is it allows the end user to get a better thought out and built detector.

We're all looking forward to the next hi end gold detector tool.

Thanks again for your time, efforts and input on DP, well respected my friend.

 

[Jonathan Porter]

On 11/28/2023 at 3:28 AM, Gerry in Idaho said:

I agree that the GPX-6000 is most simple and hi performance.  In my opinion, it's too easy and not enough features for the advanced users.  I also know the detectors are usually built for the masses of people and their knowledge or lack of.  Like the Gold Monster 1000, the GPX-6000 is missing some potential, in my opinion.  The Garrett Axiom (another high-end performing PI option at a much better price), gives us features the GPX-6000 does not

Hi Gerry, thanks for the kind words. I too was on the fence when it came to seemingly oversimplifying a detector but the sales and facts speak for themselves. The GM 1000 was an all time best seller for Minelab and still is selling well. The GPX 6000 is also extremely popular and gaining more and more popularity every day as the COVID and other release gremlin’s get ironed out and people learn to trust what it can do and appreciate the benefits. I don’t say these things lightly. The 6000 does not require huge experience to be used effectively, it is simple enough that a pretty inexperienced user can go find some gold even in the harshest ground types.

Too many controls can bamboozle even an experienced operator because so much of metal detecting has to do with your mind. You introduce too many variables and it kills confidence, that your settings are wrong or someone is not telling you the “secret” combination. 

I used the proto Axiom in some pretty bad ground and I tried all the various settings combinations to try and get some advantage out of the “features” and I found myself just coming back to the same settings over and over again. The biggest advantage I found in the short time I used them was getting the threshold pitch and threshold correct on edge of detection gold. 

Probably  the most confusing thing about the 6000 is pairing the bluetooth and accidentally pressing the soils button and then trying to use Normal timings in Hot ground. Those two are the biggest newby mistakes.

I agree about the shaft being round but it honestly doesn’t worry me, I have my lower rod super tight and never undo it day to day and only ever shorten the mid shaft when I pack up and head to another location. 

Getting back on topic, using the GPZ 7000 and Nugget Finder Zsearch 12 combo I rarely change my settings from one day to the next (a little like the 6000). I actually change my sensitivity all the time on the 6000 dependent on ground whereas the 7000 is pretty much set and forget.

Threshold 27
Theshold Pitch 40
Sensitivity 12
Audio Smoothing OFF
Ground Balance Semi-Auto
Ground Smoothing OFF
Timings High Yield
Ground Type Difficult

I go out day after day after day using those exact same settings, the only thing I do from one session to another is check for EMI and do a manual Noise Cancel if necessary, then perform a Ferrite Balance under the coil IN-AIR in Semi Auto mode using Quick-Trak (I have my ferrite taped on a stick) and then pump the coil over the ground with no Quick-Trak then get detecting.

That’s how I train people as well. Obviously in soils that can handle Normal you can go from one to the other, but from a newbie POV it is better to stick to Difficult till they learn the basics and develop some muscle memory (coil control, eye, hand, hearing symmetry).

JP

 

[Nedkelly]

On 11/28/2023 at 7:37 AM, Jonathan Porter said:

Hi Gerry, thanks for the kind words. I too was on the fence when it came to seemingly oversimplifying a detector but the sales and facts speak for themselves. The GM 1000 was an all time best seller for Minelab and still is selling well. The GPX 6000 is also extremely popular and gaining more and more popularity every day as the COVID and other release gremlin’s get ironed out and people learn to trust what it can do and appreciate the benefits. I don’t say these things lightly. The 6000 does not require huge experience to be used effectively, it is simple enough that a pretty inexperienced user can go find some gold even in the harshest ground types.

Too many controls can bamboozle even an experienced operator because so much of metal detecting has to do with your mind. You introduce too many variables and it kills confidence, that your settings are wrong or someone is not telling you the “secret” combination. 

I used the proto Axiom in some pretty bad ground and I tried all the various settings combinations to try and get some advantage out of the “features” and I found myself just coming back to the same settings over and over again. The biggest advantage I found in the short time I used them was getting the threshold pitch and threshold correct on edge of detection gold. 

Probably  the most confusing thing about the 6000 is pairing the bluetooth and accidentally pressing the soils button and then trying to use Normal timings in Hot ground. Those two are the biggest newby mistakes.

I agree about the shaft being round but it honestly doesn’t worry me, I have my lower rod super tight and never undo it day to day and only ever shorten the mid shaft when I pack up and head to another location. 

Getting back on topic, using the GPZ 7000 and Nugget Finder Zsearch 12 combo I rarely change my settings from one day to the next (a little like the 6000). I actually change my sensitivity all the time on the 6000 dependent on ground whereas the 7000 is pretty much set and forget.

Threshold 27
Theshold Pitch 40
Sensitivity 12
Audio Smoothing OFF
Ground Balance Semi-Auto
Ground Smoothing OFF
Timings High Yield
Ground Type Difficult

I go out day after day after day using those exact same settings, the only thing I do from one session to another is check for EMI and do a manual Noise Cancel if necessary, then perform a Ferrite Balance under the coil IN-AIR in Semi Auto mode using Quick-Trak (I have my ferrite taped on a stick) and then pump the coil over the ground with no Quick-Trak then get detecting.

That’s how I train people as well. Obviously in soils that can handle Normal you can go from one to the other, but from a newbie POV it is better to stick to Difficult till they learn the basics and develop some muscle memory (coil control, eye, hand, hearing symmetry).

JP

 

Hi JP, good to see you back I've missed your words of wisdom. You have taught me a lot over the years especially your dvd's, magazine articles and more recently on here. 

Just a quick question,  when you say you ferrite balance under the coil IN-AIR with the ferrite on a stick do you have the stick stuck in the ground or wedged between rocks with the ferrite on the end? If so how high off the ground would you have the ferrite? Or do you just hold the detector in the air with the quicktrack button depressed and wave the ferrite past the coil? Thanks again.

[Rob Allison]

Hi Guys,

  Yes, still have a couple NF 12" Round Z Searchcoils (Black ones) in stock, but they will be gone quick.  We will have to wait until the next NF shipment, which could be weeks or months.  

It's my understanding, at least for now, there will not be any larger NF coils for the GPX 6000 made.  The two coils on their site have been promised since the beginning of the year and we haven't seen one proto-type yet.  Being one of the largest NF dealers here in the US, I'm sure I will hear something if things change anytime soon.

Hope this helps a bit,

Rob

[phrunt]

Just over a month ago I contacted Rohan and asked directly as I'm tired of waiting for a Sadie.  This was his reply.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Simon

 Releasing the 16x10 is our priority at this stage, I don’t expect to have the 8x6 ready for sale until sometime in 2024.

I understand these delays may be frustrating and I appreciate your patience.

 Regards

Rohan   

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I think the 16x10 or something along the lines of a larger coil will come eventually from NF but all the early promotional videos and photos some people were putting up in the early stages of testing were largely wasted advertising as all they did is piss people off who are waiting forever to get their coils.

[Rob Allison]

Hi Phrunt,

Great news, Thanks for the heads up.  Glad to know we will at some point see a larger NF coil for the GPX 6000.

Rob

[Jonathan Porter]

23 hours ago, Nedkelly said:

Just a quick question,  when you say you ferrite balance under the coil IN-AIR with the ferrite on a stick do you have the stick stuck in the ground or wedged between rocks with the ferrite on the end? If so how high off the ground would you have the ferrite? Or do you just hold the detector in the air with the quicktrack button depressed and wave the ferrite past the coil? Thanks again.

I hold the 7000 in air with left elbow balanced on the top of the arm rest strap, holding the handle with my left hand with the coil held flat in air relative to the ground (folded flat against the shaft), then with my right hand I quickly side to side wave the ferrite on a stick over one receive point UNDER the coil (both receives are fine too) to excite the X balance (Ferrite calibration) with the unit in Semi-Auto and Quick-Trak button held in. (I usually wave a bit before triggering QT to listen to how much ferrite signal there is first). Sometimes it pays to release QT and trigger it again a few times to excite the tracker and force the process.

When you use this in air method the G balance will be out as it’s balancing to nothing (X and G are both balanced out at the same time when QT is triggered) so once QT is released I bring the coil to the ground and gently pump up and down and will even sweep side to side then up and down to allow the Semi-Auto GB to get the ground balance (G balance) back to accurate. Sometimes if the GB is way out the tracker will lock because of the loud ground signal (called pausing effect, you need this to prevent tracking out a good target at depth), so I’ll just place the coil on the ground and leave it motionless for a few seconds to allow the tracker to unlock, then resume pumping, repeating this till you hear the tracker kick back in and balance out the ground signal.

At no stage after this process do I EVER trigger Quick-Trak unless the Ferrite is present. If you want to be particular and OCD like me you can lift the coil in air again after the ground balance is correct and check the ferrite in air without pressing QT to double confirm there is no Ferrite signal.

BTW it is OK to have a small amount of Ferrite signal as the ground signal will always be stronger than a tiny bit of residual Ferrite signal. The timings that require the most attention are High Yield Difficult and High Yield Normal especially if you have the Gain up a fair way. The key thing is to get rid of any loud signal coming off the ferrite, if there are loud signals the G balance will try to compensate for them and your ground balance will be inaccurate.

I don’t ever use AUTO because if there are conductive signals present (all gold fields have them) or saturation signals (Australia usually has both together, especially after rain events) then the tracker can’t tell them from X signals and will come up with bad numbers, the poor old G tracker will take the brunt of the assault and try and compensate ending up with a lot of false signals and an unhappy user.

When using Semi-Auto, the ferrite calibration is linked to the detectors electronics and more particularly the temperature of the electronics. So in winter for instance the detector will be at ambient temperature at the start of the day, from start up it will be dead cold gradually warming to over 45 degrees internally, so the calibration at the start of the session will slowly move away from optimum to operating temperature but the Ferrite balance is locked in Semi-Auto mode once QT is released, so I recommend to check the ferrite calibration after an hour. In warmer weather it hardly changes (minimums of say 18 degrees C to over 40’s), but I check it anyway because I’m OCD as heck about it. 😂 

The key is to have no signal off the ferrite. X balance is tied in with the temperature of the electronics, the X balance calibration is locked if Semi-Auto is used. If X is correct (no signal off the Ferrite relative to the electronics temp) then it doesn’t matter how bad the ground is for X no X signal will be heard unless it is extreme like a high X hot rock (magnetic hot rock). Any X signal that is seen by the machine (incorrect X balance for example) can mask or hide a good target signal at depth. X signals get blended in with general detector behaviour and are very hard to isolate, it’s just an extra layer of noise that does not need to be there. The Ferrite represents X, the one Minelab supply is a specific type, so not just any ferrite works.

The reason I use the above in-air method and not just putting the ferrite on the ground is because I work in mostly high X and more particularly high Saturation environments. If the ground has high saturation (where the Tx is affected by highly magnetic surface particles) the saturation signal can be boosted/magnified up through the centre of the ferrite more than double the distance from the ground where the saturation would normally be heard, this can trick the X tracker to some extent but also give the impression the X tracker isn’t working in the Semi-Auto mode.

In such cases no amount of ferrite balancing will get rid of the signal as it is a magnified saturation signal you are hearing not the Ferrite, this magnified saturation signal prevents you from getting the coil right onto the ferrite for best calibration practices. Such scenarios can be very confusing and damage confidence. So for peace of mind I just do it in air to get the best calibration possible.

NOTE: You can place the ferrite on a large rock away from saturation signals if you have no stick or left the stick at the car.

The key here is being informed, knowledge is power. Once you know what something is, then you’re empowered to do something about it or ignore it. That is the mantra of all my training sessions, informing and empowering. 

Hope this helps
JP

[Nedkelly]

4 minutes ago, Jonathan Porter said:

I hold the 7000 in air with left elbow balanced on the top of the arm rest strap, holding the handle with my left hand with the coil held flat in air relative to the ground (folded flat against the shaft), then with my right hand I quickly side to side wave the ferrite on a stick over one receive point UNDER the coil (both receives are fine too) to excite the X balance (Ferrite calibration) with the unit in Semi-Auto and Quick-Trak button held in. (I usually wave a bit before triggering QT to listen to how much ferrite signal there is first). Sometimes it pays to release QT and trigger it again a few times to excite the tracker and force the process.

When you use this in air method the G balance will be out as it’s balancing to nothing (X and G are both balanced out at the same time when QT is triggered) so once QT is released I bring the coil to the ground and gently pump up and down and will even sweep side to side then up and down to allow the Semi-Auto GB to get the ground balance (G balance) back to accurate. Sometimes if the GB is way out the tracker will lock because of the loud ground signal (called pausing effect, you need this to prevent tracking out a good target at depth), so I’ll just place the coil on the ground and leave it motionless for a few seconds to allow the tracker to unlock, then resume pumping, repeating this till you hear the tracker kick back in and balance out the ground signal.

At no stage after this process do I EVER trigger Quick-Trak unless the Ferrite is present. If you want to be particular and OCD like me you can lift the coil in air again after the ground balance is correct and check the ferrite in air without pressing QT to double confirm there is no Ferrite signal.

BTW it is OK to have a small amount of Ferrite signal as the ground signal will always be stronger than a tiny bit of residual Ferrite signal. The timings that require the most attention are High Yield Difficult and High Yield Normal especially if you have the Gain up a fair way. The key thing is to get rid of any loud signal coming off the ferrite, if there are loud signals the G balance will try to compensate for them and your ground balance will be inaccurate.

I don’t ever use AUTO because if there are conductive signals present (all gold fields have them) or saturation signals (Australia usually has both together, especially after rain events) then the tracker can’t tell them from X signals and will come up with bad numbers, the poor old G tracker will take the brunt of the assault and try and compensate ending up with a lot of false signals and an unhappy user.

When using Semi-Auto, the ferrite calibration is linked to the detectors electronics and more particularly the temperature of the electronics. So in winter for instance the detector will be at ambient temperature at the start of the day, from start up it will be dead cold gradually warming to over 45 degrees internally, so the calibration at the start of the session will slowly move away from optimum to operating temperature but the Ferrite balance is locked in Semi-Auto mode once QT is released, so I recommend to check the ferrite calibration after an hour. In warmer weather it hardly changes (minimums of say 18 degrees C to over 40’s), but I check it anyway because I’m OCD as heck about it. 😂 

The key is to have no signal off the ferrite. X balance is tied in with the temperature of the electronics, the X balance calibration is locked if Semi-Auto is used. If X is correct (no signal off the Ferrite relative to the electronics temp) then it doesn’t matter how bad the ground is for X no X signal will be heard unless it is extreme like a high X hot rock (magnetic hot rock). Any X signal that is seen by the machine (incorrect X balance for example) can mask or hide a good target signal at depth. X signals get blended in with general detector behaviour and are very hard to isolate, it’s just an extra layer of noise that does not need to be there. The Ferrite represents X, the one Minelab supply is a specific type, so not just any ferrite works.

The reason I use the above in-air method and not just putting the ferrite on the ground is because I work in mostly high X and more particularly high Saturation environments. If the ground has high saturation (where the Tx is affected by highly magnetic surface particles) the saturation signal can be boosted/magnified up through the centre of the ferrite more than double the distance from the ground where the saturation would normally be heard, this can trick the X tracker to some extent but also give the impression the X tracker isn’t working in the Semi-Auto mode.

In such cases no amount of ferrite balancing will get rid of the signal as it is a magnified saturation signal you are hearing not the Ferrite, this magnified saturation signal prevents you from getting the coil right onto the ferrite for best calibration practices. Such scenarios can be very confusing and damage confidence. So for peace of mind I just do it in air to get the best calibration possible.

NOTE: You can place the ferrite on a large rock away from saturation signals if you have no stick or left the stick at the car.

The key here is being informed, knowledge is power. Once you know what something is, then you’re empowered to do something about it or ignore it. That is the mantra of all my training sessions, informing and empowering. 

Hope this helps
JP

I can't thank you enough JP , recently bought a 18 month old 7000 and been playing around with it. Next time I go out I'll be using your settings, ferrite balance  technique and try a manual emi noise cancel. 👍